JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Albert]

Yes. And why does that matter? You have many IAM employees complaining in the past. One of them is in my quote below, as well as others but I will not take the time to hunt them out. Tim can also confirm others on the IAM side that has complained BOTH here and to the asso. so don't give me that line that there are no body on the IAM side pissed off because you know dam well there is. The reason you found out on here (internet sites) is because this asso. is so lacking communication skills it's pathetic.



I have tried explaining to him but he wants to dodge my postings because I am from another airline, speaks volumes. Sorry Tim, but if he's a union leader he needs to be removed. I know more than he does about how the membership (majority) feels and as he says, I am not even a member of the same union, pretty dam sad there...

SWAMT for the most part 99% PREZ is correct. The way it looks the IAM has more to lose with any joint contract.As far as Tim he hasn't been happy since his orientation

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Tim,

I have simply stated that I found out about a picket on this site. I will contact TWU NC members to discuss. As for what I hear in my stations and from other IAM stations, yes we want a contract, but I haven't heard of any pissed off employees. I'm not denying it, I just haven't heard.

P. Rez

From my IAM LUS hub on the east coast I can state that we aren't too terribly unhappy about not having a JCBA. We're chillin' like a villain on a hot summer day. Can't speak for TWU LAA people. Personally, I'm in the catbird seat. You guys can take your sweet-ass time. No outsourcing and keep catering, cargo, etc. Don't give up nuthin'.

BTW you were never really good at reading the mood in the room. You were a little...well...Aspergerish that way. No offense.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weez did you buy a bunch of oak tag and paint to make picket signs?

Not sure my MIA President would engage in that sort of activity Al? He's a very unsociable individual. Haven't seen him on the Ramp even once since he took office.

Waldo is easier to find.

 

[WeAAsles]

SWAMT for the most part 99% PREZ is correct. The way it looks the IAM has more to lose with any joint contract.As far as Tim he hasn't been happy since his orientation

SWAMT has you and I on ignore. He can't read that people think he's a total and complete ignoramous, moron, dolt, Troll who found his License at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yes. And why does that matter? You have many IAM employees complaining in the past. One of them is in my quote below, as well as others but I will not take the time to hunt them out. Tim can also confirm others on the IAM side that has complained BOTH here and to the asso. so don't give me that line that there are no body on the IAM side pissed off because you know dam well there is. The reason you found out on here (internet sites) is because this asso. is so lacking communication skills it's pathetic.



I have tried explaining to him but he wants to dodge my postings because I am from another airline, speaks volumes. Sorry Tim, but if he's a union leader he needs to be removed. I know more than he does about how the membership (majority) feels and as he says, I am not even a member of the same union, pretty dam sad there...

But you come from a different perspective. IMO, most IAM members as most union members are ignorant on the process, plus Prez and other AGC's have installed in their heads that they have to give things up if there is a JCBA. Our membership has no trust with the leadership and really are fearful that they will lose out instead of progressing and advancing with a JCBA that allows us to participate in the billions of dollars that this merger created.

 

[Tim Nelson]

SWAMT for the most part 99% PREZ is correct. The way it looks the IAM has more to lose with any joint contract.As far as Tim he hasn't been happy since his orientation

Why would we lose anything among Billion dollar profits? We are in a position that it is reasonable to expect contract enhancements. Far removed from any situation of a cost neutral contract.

 

[WeAAsles]

But you come from a different perspective. IMO, most IAM members as most union members are ignorant on the process, plus Prez and other AGC's have installed in their heads that they have to give things up if there is a JCBA. Our membership has no trust with the leadership and really are fearful that they will lose out instead of progressing and advancing with a JCBA that allows us to participate in the billions of dollars that this merger created.

Did your Leadership (Negotiators) do any of what you just said here for your Standalone CBA IYO?

I think they did an excellent job for you all as far as I recall.

 

[Albert]

Why would we lose anything among Billion dollar profits? We are in a position that it is reasonable to expect contract enhancements. Far removed from any situation of a cost neutral contract.

You said you gave up the beer I'm not to sure, I think you're plastered if you don't think we will be going over to AA's medical . Scope won't remain 1 flight a day and another thing most don't bring up or don't know we will lose some of the express work ,here at LGA we do all of the express . That work will be going over to Envoy with a joint contract

 

[NYer]

But you come from a different perspective. IMO, most IAM members as most union members are ignorant on the process, plus Prez and other AGC's have installed in their heads that they have to give things up if there is a JCBA. Our membership has no trust with the leadership and really are fearful that they will lose out instead of progressing and advancing with a JCBA that allows us to participate in the billions of dollars that this merger created.

Tim, part of this process that most people forget or may not have been aware of is that before this process began it was the IAM that sat on the sidelines to wait for their Section 6 negotiations to resume after a hiatus due to the AMR BK and merger.

As LUS management was trying to get the LAA unions on board, the negotiations between the IAM and US Airways was stalled as their attention was given to the merger process. In that time, the LAA unions received enhancements from the LUS management team in the form of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). After that had taken place, the priority for the LUS management team turned towards the JCBA negotiations.

As a manner to get the JCBA going the IAM, at the time, fast-tracked the negotiations on the IAM standalone CBA while agreeing on placeholders to get the CBA passed with the understanding some of the IAM issues would be addressed during the JCBA.

And here we are.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Did your Leadership (Negotiators) do any of what you just said here for your Standalone CBA IYO?

I think they did an excellent job for you all as far as I recall.

No

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, part of this process that most people forget or may not have been aware of is that before this process began it was the IAM that sat on the sidelines to wait for their Section 6 negotiations to resume after a hiatus due to the AMR BK and merger.

As LUS management was trying to get the LAA unions on board, the negotiations between the IAM and US Airways was stalled as their attention was given to the merger process. In that time, the LAA unions received enhancements from the LUS management team in the form of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). After that had taken place, the priority for the LUS management team turned towards the JCBA negotiations.

As a manner to get the JCBA going the IAM, at the time, fast-tracked the negotiations on the IAM standalone CBA while agreeing on placeholders to get the CBA passed with the understanding some of the IAM issues would be addressed during the JCBA.

And here we are.

To be clear, I was never against the Association and I still support it. The Association appeared to work out from the beginning and offer hope to TWU. But, somewhere along the way, this thing is starting to look pretty bad and I'm not sure how we go from here to a JCBA without unity. I think it makes all of us look pretty bad if the IAM stands down on the picketing. Why not picket unless the IAM leadership thinks our members don't want to enhance our contract and finally participate in the $$$. The IAM members have an opportunity to advance and enhance the current contract which has many deficiencies. I'm not interested in anything cost neutral in this context. Whatever the case, for the sake of Labor, we need to show unity and picket together under the direction of the Association.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You said you gave up the beer I'm not to sure, I think you're plastered if you don't think we will be going over to AA's medical . Scope won't remain 1 flight a day and another thing most don't bring up or don't know we will lose some of the express work ,here at LGA we do all of the express . That work will be going over to Envoy with a joint contract

The company can take that express work from you right now. Why do you think we will agree to lose any work currently protected? The company already used history by inserting grandfather rights to the upstairs peeps in their JCBA for the small stations. The company even expanded work for the upstairs at over 100 stations now.

Sure, I will agree that the final scope may be greater than 1 flight but that shouldn't mean we lose any current work, given grandfather rights. It would be silly to entertain anything less. Same with catering. Why would any union leader get rid of catering? Our medical and our catering both survived 2 bankruptcies and we gave up a pension for it. Our current retirement needs SERIOUS enhancements.
Our compensation [Profit sharing and wage, lead pay, shift differ] is the worst in the industry. Our paid days off are the worst in the industry [United, Southwest, Delta, American]. No double time language is worst than ours. Our contract language is a joke. Try getting a definition on lunch.

Not sure why we have to lose our medical. The medical for all unions were under attack with the excise tax but that tax is expected to be pushed back 7 years and isn't immanent anymore.

At any rate, we don't need a cost neutral contract, we need a contract worth millions of dollars more. If that isn't possible then we hold our position but we still picket with the TWU instead of standing down for management.

 

[NYer]

To be clear, I was never against the Association and I still support it. The Association appeared to work out from the beginning and offer hope to TWU. But, somewhere along the way, this thing is starting to look pretty bad and I'm not sure how we go from here to a JCBA without unity. I think it makes all of us look pretty bad if the IAM stands down on the picketing. Why not picket unless the IAM leadership thinks our members don't want to enhance our contract and finally participate in the $$$. The IAM members have an opportunity to advance and enhance the current contract which has many deficiencies. I'm not interested in anything cost neutral in this context. Whatever the case, for the sake of Labor, we need to show unity and picket together under the direction of the Association.

It is just a lack of understanding as to each side's needs and history.

Without the necessary perspective of what everyone faces the only thing we have a reference to is time. Without an understanding of the challenges faced as a union group and at the table it makes sense why so many are frustrated.

On the other hand, once the JCBA comes out or if we are given actual accounts of what is happening the whole notion of "let's get this done" may go away. It seems the reference everyone is using to make their determination of whether this is taking too long seems to be the optimistic view that a JCBA can only be good and why is it taking so long.

However, that would quickly change and the TWU Members will be standing right next to the IAM Members in their support of a more deliberate process.The worst thing that could happen is if the Company gets to a point where they just throw their comprehensive proposal on the table and ask it to be voted on, something the NMB representative will also be in agreement with. At that point, our fate may be held by those that just look at the dollar signs and not the intricate detail of the language that can affect us negatively.

 

[WeAAsles]

As a manner to get the JCBA going the IAM, at the time, fast-tracked the negotiations on the IAM standalone CBA while agreeing on placeholders to get the CBA passed with the understanding some of the IAM issues would be addressed during the JCBA.

And here we are.

Incorrect but you keep trying to sell it however it makes you feel comfortable. The IAM was in a holding pattern all the way up until the last Judge who could deny the merger (A Lady as I recall) gaveled that she was not going to do that. And then LUS Management finally moved towards giving the IAM the Standalone agreement they absolutely deserved and waited a long time for (Which the TWU Publicly supported BTW)

As far as placeholder/s. The word is not plural but singular, placeholder. "Placeholder"

And that placeholder was only applied contractually to "ONE" item which was the Station Staffing methodology for one Mainline flight keeping the Station staffed until a JCBA is reached.

There is NO other language that I "read" that specifies anything besides that and especially not their Medical costs that the IAM members pay (Not to forget the letter of "possible" changes to one plan/cost if/when an ACA Cadillac Plan Tax is implemented)

Can you find me any language besides those I mentioned that even alludes that the IAM Contract is nothing more than a pacifying piecemeal agreement forged temporarily until us TWU Members join the JCBA party?

 

[NYer]

Incorrect but you keep trying to sell it however it makes you feel comfortable. The IAM was in a holding pattern all the way up until the last Judge who could deny the merger (A Lady as I recall) gaveled that she was not going to do that. And then LUS Management finally moved towards giving the IAM the Standalone agreement they absolutely deserved and waited a long time for (Which the TWU Publicly supported BTW)

As far as placeholder/s. The word is not plural but singular, placeholder. "Placeholder"

And that placeholder was only applied contractually to "ONE" item which was the Station Staffing methodology for one Mainline flight keeping the Station staffed until a JCBA is reached.

There is NO other language that I "read" that specifies anything besides that and especially not their Medical costs that the IAM members pay (Not to forget the letter of "possible" changes to one plan/cost if/when an ACA Cadillac Plan Tax is implemented)

Can you find me any language besides those I mentioned that even alludes that the IAM Contract is nothing more than a pacifying piecemeal agreement forged temporarily until us TWU Members join the JCBA party?

Ignored.