JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

Ah see ! Proof that everyone's reading comprehension is just fine

Have fun when you start rotating too BTW.

 

[Albert]

Didn't the LUS way still get you two runs through the door of Federal Bankruptcy Court as I recall?

Maybe we better figure out the best way for the New AA to do things instead IMO.

That's basically was the business model short flights high payroll I'm talking work rules>Weez you have a contract company handing out scanners and putting bags on the Jetway slide . You can't do take on those jobs with existing staff?it probably cost the company millions maybe if you agreed to do it you could have taken less cuts

 

[Albert]

Have fun when you start rotating too BTW.

Hey now your hitting below the belt, but don't try to guess my rotation just yet

 

[Talos]

Here BTW let's go back to this one for the umpteenth time.

"Q: Does American Airlines want to merge the AA frozen pension plan into the IAM National Pension Fund (IAMNPF)?

A: Discussions about merging AA’s frozen pension plan into the IAMNPF have not occurred.

The IAM has never merged an airline industry pension plan into the IAMNPF.

In fact, when Northwest Airlines, United Airlines and US Airways either froze or terminated their employer-sponsored, defined-benefit pension plans, the IAM did not merge these frozen and terminated plans into the IAMNPF. They remained administered by either the company or the PBGC, resulting in IAM members receiving two pension checks in retirement – one from the IAMNPF and one from their previous employer-sponsored plan."



http://www.usaamerger.com/2015/05/04/usaa-pension-q-a/

I would think the points made earlier on the thread about AA's pension being so under funded would prevent any merger of pensions. I'm not sure how under funded AA's plan for the TWU is but the govt allowed them to do it and it is probably severe.Not sure about the IAM plan but have read that multi employer plans are not faring well either. A shite sandwich for us all.

 

[WeAAsles]

That's basically was the business model short flights high payroll I'm talking work rules>Weez you have a contract company handing out scanners and putting bags on the Jetway slide . You can't do take on those jobs with existing staff?it probably cost the company millions maybe if you agreed to do it you could have taken less cuts

So you think having to create bid spots that will certainly go to senior guys making over $30 per hour is cheaper than the contract Company? Seriously? One more time, seriously?

But I LOVE your idea.

 

[WeAAsles]

I would think the points made earlier on the thread about AA's pension being so under funded would prevent any merger of pensions. I'm not sure how under funded AA's plan for the TWU is but the govt allowed them to do it and it is probably severe.Not sure about the IAM plan but have read that multi employer plans are not faring well either. A shite sandwich for us all.

The only Multiemployer plan you should concern yourself with is the one you're already in or the one you might be in.

Who gives a Rats Ass about the doomed IBT Central States plan if we aren't anywhere near it. Or IBT Members living in Central States.

My focus is on the IAMNPF only.

 

[lax]

Al maybe I've never done a good job of informing you how many people I know in both MIA and DFW who do nothing BUT talk about what they pay out in Medical costs monthly.

The worst of course are the ones who took the top plan and are paying out almost $600.00 per month.

You have ZERO clue how many guys want your medical plans. It IS a major issue for BOTH sides.

agreed but I don't believe the top plan guys are enough of a percentage to really make a difference. imho the major sticking point for aa guys is going to be the cs policy. too many guys system wide depend on it. either the iam was very clever getting that ta'd (fail-safe) or truly disconnected from the majority of the membership. personally unless there's some real cream on top i don't think any ta passes with that current language (barring backroom don't let them vote antics). kudos iam, you did it!

 

[WeAAsles]

agreed but I don't believe the top plan guys are enough of a percentage to really make a difference. imho the major sticking point for aa guys is going to be the cs policy. too many guys system wide depend on it. either the iam was very clever getting that ta'd (fail-safe) or truly disconnected from the majority of the membership. personally unless there's some real cream on top i don't think any ta passes with that current language (barring backroom don't let them vote antics). kudos iam, you did it!

It might have been hard to argue seeing as how we never had it in Contract language instead leaving it in the Company's hands as their policy?

For many yes though it will be an adjustment.

 

[Colonel.Ramp]

2 transfers in one from CLT and one from ORD however we have yet to meet the one from ORD yes both are PT If we were to go to 3 person crew per flight we'd be losing some folks per those idiotic clowns in DFW who claim we are way over staffed to which we are still trying to figure out where and how. On the other hand should we go to that 3 person crew guarantee delays will pile up due to manpower of course that would not sit well with mgmt. hubs are way different than out cities like mine we do far more work than hubs so w 3 person crew... the person running the bags wont be back anytime soon if at all so that leaves one in the bin (738 long bins) (MD-80 either long or short) and one at bottom of belt doing clp numbers the lead... if we are lucky enough to have one will be up in the jetway getting those 30 plus bags if he is not on another flight and 9 out of 10 times crew working one flight sees their next one waiting to be parked pilot being mad no one is there to park it its things like this corp needs to understand and actually see instead of staring down at paper and saying this or that etc

2 transfers in one from CLT and one from ORD however we have yet to meet the one from ORD yes both are PT If we were to go to 3 person crew per flight we'd be losing some folks per those idiotic clowns in DFW who claim we are way over staffed to which we are still trying to figure out where and how. On the other hand should we go to that 3 person crew guarantee delays will pile up due to manpower of course that would not sit well with mgmt. hubs are way different than out cities like mine we do far more work than hubs so w 3 person crew... the person running the bags wont be back anytime soon if at all so that leaves one in the bin (738 long bins) (MD-80 either long or short) and one at bottom of belt doing clp numbers the lead... if we are lucky enough to have one will be up in the jetway getting those 30 plus bags if he is not on another flight and 9 out of 10 times crew working one flight sees their next one waiting to be parked pilot being mad no one is there to park it its things like this corp needs to understand and actually see instead of staring down at paper and saying this or that etc

Wow. I thought we were neck and neck but you may have us beat.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Three man teams (plus lead/crew chief) are plenty provided they are not running bags or excessive amounts of freight with ground turns (short turns). Frankly, even a 2-man teams (plus the lead) are workable in most situations especially with a power stow (and I know that's a reality few want to hear.) Of course with 2-man teams, the AA crew chiefs would need to be more involved in the unloading and push backs. The Fort Worth boys will look to slash ground operations as they ran a lean operation with AW/US.

i hope you're saying that small stations have 'plenty' with a 3-man crew. otherwise, this is aa, not america west or us air. internationals, banks, bad weather in northern stations...this isn't phx with sunshine and 14 trips a day.

i was for the merger because i believed horton and co. would have kept aa in an incubator...and only grow eagle. i wasn't for the merger because i thought the aw/us team were airline mngt. juggernauts. no offense, you guys were our competition in the 80s & 90s and i don't believe aa ever gave you a second thought.

3-man crews do not work in hubs with banks, intls and bad weather. i saw it in the 90s with ua. ua could not believe how aa could ramp connect bags and turn flights in 45 minute banks. ua sent managers; with aa's approval to aa ccon and got it within 3 days: ua's 3-man crew was a flop and it's 600 man strong 'ramp alert' was really ramp asleep. the simple fact that the ramp connectors' starting point was the gate itself was a winning concept. no "i lost my trip sheet", "someone stole my bag cart", "i got caught by 14 planes crossing the taxiway", "the sun got in my eyes".

in ord, the aw/us people are trying to impose a mayberry, usa culture in a major hub. good luck.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Come on Weez we get 3% over delta plus differential and say 10 holidays. The healthcare can be the same (AA) with yearly adjustments and the contract will pass and you know it and so do they

3% over dl is like 7% under ua. not happening. voting no would be a no-brainer.

$35/hr max rate with 10 holidays and same insurance? 99% i'd vote yes, unless scope got gutted. if this was 1954 with 2017 health costs - that era's tiny divorce rate, insurance for the family is a huge issue. today, with the divorce rates and families split, many fscs are affected by child support payments...show the money and the TA will pass.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Two posts , how many TWU guys are in PHX anyway?

barely over 20, i believe. phx has 2 supervisors that were former aa crew chiefs.

 

[WeAAsles]

3% over dl is like 7% under ua. not happening. voting no would be a no-brainer.

$35/hr max rate with 10 holidays and same insurance? 99% i'd vote yes, unless scope got gutted. if this was 1954 with 2017 health costs - that era's tiny divorce rate, insurance for the family is a huge issue. today, with the divorce rates and families split, many fscs are affected by child support payments...show the money and the TA will pass.

Excellent post Crema. But I have to point out to you that on (Just BASE) wages DL Top paid Ramp Agents just came up to our level on April 1. What I heard if correct they're now at $30.14.

UAL gets their next increase on 12/1 to $30.47
AA gets our next increase on 9/12 to $30.81
DL none of us know? And the FA's just lost an Arbitration to have them included in their recent wage adjustment (A Circus show for their members)

Unless we get some serious strengthening on the back end of our careers, no I don't think 3% is sufficient.

I forgot all about including those massive divorce and child support numbers. Those guys are all over the place out there. Tons of them after Sept 11 and all the cuts we went through. Plus these guys are all smart enough to know that their ex wives are going to haul them back to Court starting in January 2018 to start capitalizing on those raises we got and seek modifications to their support. Probably why none of them have slowed down the amount of hours they put in before the raises kicked in.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i hope i'm wrong about dl for dl employees and all airline employees...but i believe the wage train for dl stops at the magic plateau of $30+/hr. that, along with the extremely generous profit sharing should be enough to tide them over for some years...i'm thinking 3-4 years. i believe dl mngt. has no problem thinking and believing that.

it was ua & munoz that stepped up last and set the new bar. the 4th most profitable airline paying industry leading wages. $33.30 max rate along with .51/.61 actual shift differential will compel aa to pay us $35/hr max rate. i believe that.

as far as the rest, yes. 60 years ago with today's health care costs, health insurance would have been paramount. we know in eisenhower's usa that the husband was the breadwinner and the wife was a 'homemaker'. today, the wife works while the usa has appx. 50% divorce rate and the ones who suffer with the costs are the ones that have a family and perhaps the wife's job doesn't have a quality insurance plan.

i'll admit that i thought parker would have given a nod and we would have had a contract by late last year. obviously, i was wrong and this is not the case and i still don't understand why the association is getting a lot of heat. to me, the foot dragging is on the company.

 

[Albert]

So you think having to create bid spots that will certainly go to senior guys making over $30 per hour is cheaper than the contract Company? Seriously? One more time, seriously?

But I LOVE your idea.

I didn't say that, you could use the existing people like we do a LUS.Guess you rather see them close EWR then you climbing the jetway stairs 4 times a day