JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

Don't mean to sound like a smart a_ _ with this comment so I apologize if some take it that way. But I guess many of you on the twu or AA side is used to quick negotiations. But what I think most of you forget just because the name AA is still around is that the AA you used to work for is gone. You work for US Airways now that decided to keep the AA name. The reason I state this? These negotiations to the IAM and IAM side are going pretty much as expected. This is just how Jerry Glass and his guys negotiate. Ask any break rooms that I have briefed, and they all will tell you that I have said all along about 12-18 months is my opinion for an agreement. June will be the 18th month and I still believe that is possible. If not, I think we will be very close to that date. That is just my opinion, having been through this scenario before. I could be off, but we will see. Good progress was made this past week with the executive team. But your not going to see individual articles t/a,d at this point. That was our job and we got done as much as we could before handing things over. While I'm not in the room, I have been through this before. And I would predict that we the negotiating team will eventually get hit with huge chunks of the contract all at once. While they will go through every remaining article that we didn't get done, they will package many of these articles together. Maybe even all of them. But remember, if it's like it has been before. Your not going to hear of single articles t/a,d in my opinion from this point forward.

The issue is that there has been little explanation from the Association as to what expectations we should have. The speculation has been left to the Members, many of whom don't understand the process.

Your have others, even on this page, who proport to have an inside track as to the inner workings and relationships with some of the participants on the negotiating comnittee and has predicted a quick resolution...several different times.

This was going to be a challenging task, especially since the are 500 pages of language crafted over decades that need to be scrutinized. There are different cultures in the room that need to understand each other and be open to change in order to see things through an unvarnished lens.

None of that has been explained. Then throw in the confusing rhetoric where one side has a negotiations protest campaign, a local has another and the Association is mum.

The theory is that we'll show solidarity.

How can we do that with the different messages being projected? And the Company can see that do they may try to capitalize by hoping on external pressure to move things in their direction.

 

[WeAAsles]

This discussion is about the communication concerning the negotiations and the Association, that transcends any person because the conservation would be the same regardless of the names at the helm.

You, and your handlers, continue to try to make political theater with my contributions and take unrelated issues onto a political argument. Most people on these pages are only interested in what is happening with their union, the Association and negotiations. Your obsessive bromance is tiring and unproductive. Although there might be a couple that enjoy the entertainment value.

Good morning NYer.

Well this was a completely useless and meant to distract from the questions I asked you response. Besides the fact that if you actually read Charlie Brown's response I think he covered quite well the issue regarding communications.

Perhaps it's you who are attempting to undermine your seeming enemies within the Association and paint them as inept or incompetent at negotiating or providing information regarding the progress and difficulties of talks? I think it's you who are trying to make things Political?

Handlers? Ok. If I have handlers then can you tell me how much I'm supposed to be paid? I haven't received any checks yet? How much were you paid in the past by your Masters? (Handlers)

 

[NYer]

Thank you very much CB. It really is greatly appreciated by me if maybe not everyone and it does give me some information to try to quell the frustrations and I hope NYer who also has a particular reach appreciates it as well.

BTW to be honest the raises did calm much of the frustrations on our side even if maybe tactically it wasn't the wisest of decisions.

The updates I guess will always be debatable on how each individual takes them?

You should be proud of that ORD Town Hall though. If Isom and the Company are playing games none of those members were buying any of it.

Have a great night.

Been sharing much of what CB says, including the fact that they have the decision makers in the room.

Unfortunately, your handlers make go off topic and the bromance emerges to ruin most conversations.

 

[NYer]

Good morning NYer.

Well this was a completely useless and meant to distract from the questions I asked you response. Besides the fact that if you actually read Charlie Brown's response I think he covered quite well the issue regarding communications.

Perhaps it's you who are attempting to undermine your seeming enemies within the Association and paint them as inept or incompetent at negotiating or providing information regarding the progress and difficulties of talks? I think it's you who are trying to make things Political?

Handlers? Ok. If I have handlers then can you tell me how much I'm supposed to be paid? I haven't received any checks yet? How much were you paid in the past by your Masters? (Handlers)

In doubt a terrible job at making things political seeing that I one speak on the issues, not the people, although you try very hard to get that to be part of the conversation.

Stick to the topic, elections are over, you guys lost. Move on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Maybe it is just me... but I expect these negotiations to take years, and maybe I was a little optimistic earlier as this was a merger and there would be a push for one integrated fleet work force, as the US/AW CBA was pushed through fairly quickly (but was rejected after the first vote). However, I have seen Southwest ramp agents passed a T/A in the last year that took 5 years to negotiate too!

I am making good money, happy with job, so I would rather have no deal (and work under the existing agreement) than a bad deal, so I am in no hurry.

You did read that Charlie Brown gave a timeline that was his educated opinion. That timeline said that he believes (his opinion) that this could be done by June. Perhaps, maybe.

I would go back and read his comments again on how he believes things will work from his experience with this management team and how they work after most of the smaller issues have been completed.

His comments made everything much clearer to me personally.

 

[WeAAsles]

In doubt a terrible job at making things political seeing that I one speak on the issues, not the people, although you try very hard to get that to be part of the conversation.

Stick to the topic, elections are over, you guys lost. Move on.

You still seem to be focused on Politics. What does any Local elections have to do with this topic of conversation.

You allude to the claim that the Association needs to do more to inform. But as I recall when you first brought the members back an extension TA to vote on that we never got the chance. The information as to how and why that came about was terrible. And the 2003 concessions were even worse than that.

I recall being in DFW at the time and all we had were far more rumors than we have today.

As far as the Association goes today again since I think Charlie Brown covered it quite well, what is it precisely you're looking for? What is it that you're lacking to be able to express to the members you represent?

Are you looking for them to have a stenographer present in all negotiating sessions to put out transcripts for you?

 

[WeAAsles]

Been sharing much of what CB says, including the fact that they have the decision makers in the room.

.

Well if you have then good for you. You have been performing your duties as you swore to do.

Perhaps you may want to consider writing some Presidents messages or even make a video like President Peterson explaining the things you have been Sharing at your Union meetings attended by perhaps 20 or 30 people per show?

BTW just so you know. Any message you have conveyed in your meetings I've been discovering has come back down to the field as a mumbled ball of confusion.

Your members have been losing your message between the 4th floor and perhaps as soon as they hit the escalators.

And I'm not lieing Brother.

 

[AANOTOK]

Thanks CB for your opinion on negotiations, and that's what it was, an opinion and not a factual update.
Now, a few things that bother me. You state that you guys did what you set out to do and that was to get as many T/A's as possible, and you did your job. Well, some of things that you have not gotten T/A's for have not even been discussed according to the Association updates. Even yourself on occasion mentioned you haven't even gotten into the articles that the members really care about. Those were right around the corner, upcoming. My complaint is you guys were the hired guns, paid negotiating committee and you don't even discuss the most important articles, you hand them off. We have been told that that the big boys were coming in to speed up negotiations, kinda of like saying there is an impasse and we need help. What is it, were the biggies always scheduled to come in at this point, or are you getting no cooperation from the company now and you need help. Also, you have been here touting there is no division among the two unions, in my opinion, that is another reason you are having the two sides sit down together, we still have difficulties among ourselves. You saying in your opinion things could be wrapped up by June or pretty close to it (you also cover your butt by saying it could go later) is either going out on a limb since they are only meeting basically once a month now, or you know something you are not privy to say. Again, you have covered yourself nicely.
I have watched the town halls, all of them and I read the last little update from the Association saying don't believe them, they are paid entertainment. Well, from watching them, it may or may not be a game, I will say they are pretty consistent in their message (other than their plus 7 plus 3 etc,,,). If indeed it is a game as you state, or paid entertainment as the Association say's, then so far the Association is failing. This first of it's kind combo in the industry was supposed to prevent this, strength in numbers, you know, AA will definitely pay attention. That just doesn't seem to be the case at this point.

Just like you CB, this is all my opinion, and as I have said many times, when I'm wrong I can put enough Texas BBQ sauce on crow to enjoy it. But I think the Association has some patching up in their own house to do before they can start building others...Good Luck!

 

[NYer]

You still seem to be focused on Politics. What does any Local elections have to do with this topic of conversation.

You allude to the claim that the Association needs to do more to inform. But as I recall when you first brought the members back an extension TA to vote on that we never got the chance. The information as to how and why that came about was terrible. And the 2003 concessions were even worse than that.

I recall being in DFW at the time and all we had were far more rumors than we have today.

As far as the Association goes today again since I think Charlie Brown covered it quite well, what is it precisely you're looking for? What is it that you're lacking to be able to express to the members you represent?

Are you looking for them to have a stenographer present in all negotiating sessions to put out transcripts for you?

It's 2017. Stay focused on the topic of the JCBA Negotiations, as that's the name of this thread.

Your political agenda is not the subject matter.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's 2017. Stay focused on the topic of the JCBA Negotiations, as that's the name of this thread.

Your political agenda is not the subject matter.

 

[P. REZ]

Thanks CB for your opinion on negotiations, and that's what it was, an opinion and not a factual update.
Now, a few things that bother me. You state that you guys did what you set out to do and that was to get as many T/A's as possible, and you did your job. Well, some of things that you have not gotten T/A's for have not even been discussed according to the Association updates. Even yourself on occasion mentioned you haven't even gotten into the articles that the members really care about. Those were right around the corner, upcoming. My complaint is you guys were the hired guns, paid negotiating committee and you don't even discuss the most important articles, you hand them off. We have been told that that the big boys were coming in to speed up negotiations, kinda of like saying there is an impasse and we need help. What is it, were the biggies always scheduled to come in at this point, or are you getting no cooperation from the company now and you need help. Also, you have been here touting there is no division among the two unions, in my opinion, that is another reason you are having the two sides sit down together, we still have difficulties among ourselves. You saying in your opinion things could be wrapped up by June or pretty close to it (you also cover your butt by saying it could go later) is either going out on a limb since they are only meeting basically once a month now, or you know something you are not privy to say. Again, you have covered yourself nicely.
I have watched the town halls, all of them and I read the last little update from the Association saying don't believe them, they are paid entertainment. Well, from watching them, it may or may not be a game, I will say they are pretty consistent in their message (other than their plus 7 plus 3 etc,,,). If indeed it is a game as you state, or paid entertainment as the Association say's, then so far the Association is failing. This first of it's kind combo in the industry was supposed to prevent this, strength in numbers, you know, AA will definitely pay attention. That just doesn't seem to be the case at this point.

Just like you CB, this is all my opinion, and as I have said many times, when I'm wrong I can put enough Texas BBQ sauce on crow to enjoy it. But I think the Association has some patching up in their own house to do before they can start building others...Good Luck!

AANOTOK,

I concur with CB about the status of negotiations. I want to say that all the heavy hitting articles are known to the Executive Negotiators. The history of Parker is exactly what CB said too, they hope the members push the negotiators to hurry and settle for less. Unfortunately, it is a game to the company. My advice to all members from the Association would be to be patient but tell Parker, Isom, etc. in the town halls to quit playing games because you all support the Negotiations Committees. I believe June is a possibility as well but the Company can continue to screw around and drag this out. Our goal has always been to hold this Company to present the best contract in the industry, period. If you look at their town halls, they say best pay. Best pay isn't the best contract and they propose language that is not the best in many instances.

P. Rez

 

[Albert]

I highly doubt that. And I wasn't talking about you being obnoxious.

Na NA Weez told you so

 

[cltrat]

fwiw,
I've known CB for a number of years now.I can tell you I never meet a union guy at anywhere near his level that has the integrity that he does.
You may not always agree with what he says but the guy never will knowingly blow smoke up your ass.

 

[charlie Brown]

Thanks CB for your opinion on negotiations, and that's what it was, an opinion and not a factual update.
Now, a few things that bother me. You state that you guys did what you set out to do and that was to get as many T/A's as possible, and you did your job. Well, some of things that you have not gotten T/A's for have not even been discussed according to the Association updates. Even yourself on occasion mentioned you haven't even gotten into the articles that the members really care about. Those were right around the corner, upcoming. My complaint is you guys were the hired guns, paid negotiating committee and you don't even discuss the most important articles, you hand them off. We have been told that that the big boys were coming in to speed up negotiations, kinda of like saying there is an impasse and we need help. What is it, were the biggies always scheduled to come in at this point, or are you getting no cooperation from the company now and you need help. Also, you have been here touting there is no division among the two unions, in my opinion, that is another reason you are having the two sides sit down together, we still have difficulties among ourselves. You saying in your opinion things could be wrapped up by June or pretty close to it (you also cover your butt by saying it could go later) is either going out on a limb since they are only meeting basically once a month now, or you know something you are not privy to say. Again, you have covered yourself nicely.
I have watched the town halls, all of them and I read the last little update from the Association saying don't believe them, they are paid entertainment. Well, from watching them, it may or may not be a game, I will say they are pretty consistent in their message (other than their plus 7 plus 3 etc,,,). If indeed it is a game as you state, or paid entertainment as the Association say's, then so far the Association is failing. This first of it's kind combo in the industry was supposed to prevent this, strength in numbers, you know, AA will definitely pay attention. That just doesn't seem to be the case at this point.

Just like you CB, this is all my opinion, and as I have said many times, when I'm wrong I can put enough Texas BBQ sauce on crow to enjoy it. But I think the Association has some patching up in their own house to do before they can start building others...Good Luck!

AANOTOK
You make some good points. But I don't say what I say to try and cover my ass. When i have time I come on here to try and answer questions and I am as straight up with everyone as I can be. I have given break rooms and people my opinion for awhile now as to when we could get this done. But it is just that, my educated opinion. It wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong. This I can assure you. That Sito and Harry doesn't come in with plans to negotiate for another year. They come in to wrap things up. And yes for the IAM side anyway, it was always known Sito would come in at some point. I think I have said this before.
And I can only tell you how I feel about the guys I negotiate with. I can't speak for them as to how they feel the association is going. I don't have a issue with any of the TWU guys. Yes I argue with them from time to time. I also argue with the IAM guys from time to time. Ask PRez. Haha. But I take arguing as part of the job. It is part of negotiations. If it bothers you to have disagreements and argue a little with your union brothers, then negotiations would probably send you to a early grave. I'm the type that will argue a point with you all day, then go have a beer with you that evening. Because I look at it as a normal part of negotiations. If people have told you we don't get along. Ok, I guess thats ok they feel that way. I'm just telling you how I feel. Again we argue and discuss issues everyday, but when we meet with the company we are one united group.
I personally think people confuse the very difficult job of bringing two contract together ( which is always difficult ) with the two unions not getting together. Again. I'm one that doesn't lose sleep on the fact that I argued with someone earlier in the day. So i don't call that not getting along. Company does the same thing. Don't think we haven't heard them raise their voices to each other over the course of these talks.

 

[charlie Brown]

fwiw,
I've known CB for a number of years now.I can tell you I never meet a union guy at anywhere near his level that has the integrity that he does.
You may not always agree with what he says but the guy never will knowingly blow smoke up your ass.

Thanks Rat
I'll pay you that 20 bucks when I see you. Lol.
We will be briefing the break rooms Monday hopefully I'll see you around. Regen is going to try and make it to take questions also. Not 100% sure he can make it. But some of us will be around for sure.