JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Albert]

What I meant is the Leadership does have the right to sit in on the talks if they want.

I don't know why anyway anyone would consider this to be something negative personally?

The Leaders are people just like us and they may hit one out of the park with their assistance?

My leaders make six figures and ride around in private jets, not like me at all

 

[Albert]

Nah. Don't see it personally. That might have been the old Leaders but the ones we have now are very different.

So there Help wanted ads say whistle blowers and antagonists welcome

 

[WeAAsles]

Disagree 100%, to me it looks like they are telling the negotiators they are incompetent or even worse Sito and co are in cahoots with the company

Everyone has a right to their opinions Al. I don't personally know Sito but I have had people on both sides tell me they like him and I trust those opinions.

But again you're looking at this with a negative view and we might not be looking at things the same way.

 

[Albert]

Everyone has a right to their opinions Al. I don't personally know Sito but I have had people on both sides tell me they like him and I trust those opinions.

But again you're looking at this with a negative view and we might not be looking at things the same way.

How will we ever know if could have got a better contract if we left it for the negotiators

 

[WeAAsles]

How will we ever know if could have got a better contract if we left it for the negotiators

How would we ever have known that we could have reached $30.17 per hour if this had been done over a year ago?

How would I ever know if I had played the lottery last week?

 

[AANOTOK]

Think you need to separate the two (merger and Association). Now start your question and answer session. Would we still have gotten the raise? Don't see why not. Would we have had a JCBA by now, probably. Would it be better than what the Association is ultimately going to end up with? Possibly.
Would the NC been able to hammer it out without the leadership? I think so. So, someone tell me exactly what the Association has been good for so far...yes, the merger has had it's benefits for both the employees and the Company (especially the company and it's leadership), the Association, I'm still looking.

 

[Talos]

Let me add one last thing, if the Association can not bring AA up to the best of what US currently has, then this Association is a complete failure in my opinion. I have never been a restore and more guy (yet now they are posting billions and will be for the foreseeable future, I'm reconsidering) I will not be happy for example if US currently gets 10 holidays, we get 5 and so they negotiate 6,7,8 or 9. Anything less than 10 is a complete failure...

AANOTOK, you're right about the failures. I meant the Association when it started meant well, but has shown itself to be ill conceived. The LUS guys had to do a contract and without that fact they are probably would have suffered longer. They got our pay rate which they deserved. The problem like you pointed out was when we all got the 30.17 we LAA people were not brought up to the LUS guys with holidays and health care. Considering AA's profits that is a failure by the Association. Was it even discussed? Most guys I know just consider the association as a business arrangement for the 2 unions. Seeing the results thus far, it's hard to argue against that.

 

[Albert]

AANOTOK, you're right about the failures. I meant the Association when it started meant well, but has shown itself to be ill conceived. The LUS guys had to do a contract and without that fact they are probably would have suffered longer. They got our pay rate which they deserved. The problem like you pointed out was when we all got the 30.17 we LAA people were not brought up to the LUS guys with holidays and health care. Considering AA's profits that is a failure by the Association. Was it even discussed? Most guys I know just consider the association as a business arrangement for the 2 unions. Seeing the results thus far, it's hard to argue against that.

Of course it was a business arrangement what did you think it was going to be like an East and West Germany unification. Its obvious they were covering their a$$es

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The LUS guys had to do a contract and without that fact they are probably would have suffered longer. They got our pay rate which they deserved. The problem like you pointed out was when we all got the 30.17 we LAA people were not brought up to the LUS guys with holidays and health care.

well said. i've noticed the resistance one gets when they talk about laa issues and some laa fscs i know who don't read this forum/post here, also want an explanation for what you just laid out. my personal feeling is that this isn't a big deal for me, doesn't make me wrong or right.

i feel as though we will get a nice jump on DOS, signing bonus and max out $3.50-$4.00 (not including differential) higher then where we are now. call me crazy, i'm confident about the wages.

we all have around the same amount of time and this may be the best last contract we will ever see. it's almost as though this is a race to finish line. stay healthy and leave aa on your own terms.

since i feel we will get the $$$, the other issue is quality of work life. the scope part is huge for this. if we are able to get envoy work in various cities and hubs, this will pave the way for that race to the finish line. this is what i'm hoping for. if all that means a rocky financial start for new hires and PTers, so be it. the 'b' and 'c' scales were created for the same reasons and who worried and voted about our futures in 1983?

 

[pjirish317]

What incantation should I use to summon Tim Nelson?

Al,

Just start talking about union elections, he should come a runnin'.

 

[pjirish317]

I am not distancing myself from anything, I am telling people that I, as one person, would prefer to go the distance with this Company. That doesn't necessarily make me right either. I am just worried that we rush into something we later regret.

P. Rez

This is what I was trying to say in a nutshell. Thanks P.Rez. There is more to a CBA than economic issues.Although everything has a cost. Do it right the first time. I can't imagine how hard it is to try and blend 2 very different CBA's into 1, especially when you are trying to get the best from both. In my opinion, that would take time, and do you honestly think the company will just agree to everything without so much as a counter? They are not just going to hand it to us, like some of you imply here. So here's a question for everybody, how long do you think it would take to reasonably get 2 vastly different CBA's combined, while negotiating with a notoriously cost neutral company? My personal opinion on this is maybe 18 months to 2 years.

 

[john john]

I am not distancing myself from anything, I am telling people that I, as one person, would prefer to go the distance with this Company. That doesn't necessarily make me right either. I am just worried that we rush into something we later regret.

P. Rez

This is a J.G. tacit he did the same thing with Passenger Service. He gets all the muckmucks in the back room and cuts the deals

 

[WeAAsles]

This is what I was trying to say in a nutshell. Thanks P.Rez. There is more to a CBA than economic issues.Although everything has a cost. Do it right the first time. I can't imagine how hard it is to try and blend 2 very different CBA's into 1, especially when you are trying to get the best from both. In my opinion, that would take time, and do you honestly think the company will just agree to everything without so much as a counter? They are not just going to hand it to us, like some of you imply here. So here's a question for everybody, how long do you think it would take to reasonably get 2 vastly different CBA's combined, while negotiating with a notoriously cost neutral company? My personal opinion on this is maybe 18 months to 2 years.

In the context of this conversation and maybe it's me that needs to have a little more understanding on this but looking at the last Maintenance update they have again TA'd some items and are now up to 30 completed TA's out of a total of ?

How many more articles do we have that are not absolute in our face economic articles (I.E. Hollidays, Vacations, Sick bank) left still to be completed?

By numbers at least in appearance it's looking like we are no longer in lock step with our Maintenance Brothers and Sisters unless of course the items they are agreeing to have no bearing on items in our contract and are separate issues?

Are we on an even keel and perhaps have more articles just consolidated than they do?

http://www.twu.org/Portals/0/MechanicRStoresJan13.pdf

 

[Albert]

well said. i've noticed the resistance one gets when they talk about laa issues and some laa fscs i know who don't read this forum/post here, also want an explanation for what you just laid out. my personal feeling is that this isn't a big deal for me, doesn't make me wrong or right.

i feel as though we will get a nice jump on DOS, signing bonus and max out $3.50-$4.00 (not including differential) higher then where we are now. call me crazy, i'm confident about the wages.

we all have around the same amount of time and this may be the best last contract we will ever see. it's almost as though this is a race to finish line. stay healthy and leave aa on your own terms.

since i feel we will get the $$$, the other issue is quality of work life. the scope part is huge for this. if we are able to get envoy work in various cities and hubs, this will pave the way for that race to the finish line. this is what i'm hoping for. if all that means a rocky financial start for new hires and PTers, so be it. the 'b' and 'c' scales were created for the same reasons and who worried and voted about our futures in 1983?

I think you are going to be greatly disappointed.

 

[Albert]

In the context of this conversation and maybe it's me that needs to have a little more understanding on this but looking at the last Maintenance update they have again TA'd some items and are now up to 30 completed TA's out of a total of ?

How many more articles do we have that are not absolute in our face economic articles (I.E. Hollidays, Vacations, Sick bank) left still to be completed?

By numbers at least in appearance it's looking like we are no longer in lock step with our Maintenance Brothers and Sisters unless of course the items they are agreeing to have no bearing on items in our contract and are separate issues?

Are we on an even keel and perhaps have more articles just consolidated than they do?

http://www.twu.org/Portals/0/MechanicRStoresJan13.pdf

I think we will stay the same wage wise or the very most you will see is 3% over DL and that's with September's 2.1% included