WeAAsles
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By saying what you think it's going to be, you could also be sending out signals that you're ok with your expectations being low?
JMO.
JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet
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By saying what you think it's going to be, you could also be sending out signals that you're ok with your expectations being low?
JMO.
NYer
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You are probably correct, Al.
Okay Weez I'll take the blame if we get a lousy JCBA. Bob will still talk to me
And you wind up giving up BSO
CremaDiLimone
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i could be.
ua's max is $33.30 along with .53 cents (afternoon)/.57 cents (night) shift differential, by 2021, i believe.
dl's max will be barely over $30 by april. 3% over dl means we get .50 cents for the next 5-6 years? i don't think so.
3% over ua takes us to apprx. $34.30, which is apprx. $4 more per hour than we make now.
my thinking is ua +3%. when parker was blabbing about dl, dl was paying the highest wages, prior to ua re-opening and giving ua a new deal.
I stand corrected, I thought you meant we would be making $33 on DOS
CremaDiLimone
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no one with any status would throw numbers around, but i have to think NYer, you have to aim higher than that.
3% more than dl is farcical. if aa can guarantee me a $9k-$12k profit sharing check, per year, every year for the next 5-6 years...i'd give it some thought.
jim wheel - nice guy from what i remember, used to pass out jet bridge keys in ord..tell him he has to do better than that.
CremaDiLimone
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i also believe that parker has put his negotiating team on the backfoot with his constant, "we'll never lose money again" speeches. he's not doing them any favors if they are low-balling the association with everything.
i listened to his conference calls and the contempt from him and kirby for just about all of the analysts' questions and comments about debt. i sympathized with him...give aa 7-8 years to get this merger correct, just like dl has had to get stuff right with nw and we'll see what aa can be.
with the stock buybacks, current amount of shares outstanding aal x dal and current market cap, it's clear that aal has a higher ceiling, going forward.
parker was correct, the majority of analysts too paralyzed by debt to jump on board.
i listened to his conference calls and the contempt from him and kirby for just about all of the analysts' questions and comments about debt. i sympathized with him...give aa 7-8 years to get this merger correct, just like dl has had to get stuff right with nw and we'll see what aa can be.
with the stock buybacks, current amount of shares outstanding aal x dal and current market cap, it's clear that aal has a higher ceiling, going forward.
parker was correct, the majority of analysts too paralyzed by debt to jump on board.
CremaDiLimone
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5 columns to the right, at the bottom..what is their max rate? looks like $33.30.
NYer
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Well, Crema.
The challenge of making comparisons such as the one you made with DL is that the Company will want some of the labor advantages they hold. Airlines are a big copy cat industry and we all go up together and we all go down together. So yes, we can ask for the same financial outlay of the DL workers, but that also means we deal with the challenges of the counteroffer from the Company, which usually means cuts in work rules.
Airline negotiations, in large part, are a more macro view. In others words, they usually look at the total labor cost at a competitor and aim to stay within those parameters. That being the case, the challenge for any negotiations is to try and find ways to make the pieces of that pie fit together knowing the resources aren't unlimited.
NYer
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That's what their max rate will be. When you bring up their rates in 2021, most people believe you are speaking about 2017 or the top rates as of the Date of Signing (DOS), which creates confusion within the conversation.
CremaDiLimone
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point made. obviously, aa is not going to guarantee me anything...so, the dl comparison was never valid. the fact that ua blew by dl should change who we are aiming for, +3%.
maybe you also misunderstood my $34.50 as a DOS figure and not as my hoped for future max pay rate. thought it was clear.
maybe you also misunderstood my $34.50 as a DOS figure and not as my hoped for future max pay rate. thought it was clear.
WeAAsles
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Al all I've ever wanted from the beginning of this merger is to see us hit the sweet spot for our maximum long term economic value that we could capture.
Reading Delta hit the brakes and only come up to match us 5 months from now tells me we're in that sweet spot now.
About a year ago I was arguing with 2 former TWU Presidents who went through the concessionary negotiations prior to and in the BK. These two individuals were arguing with me that we needed to lock in ASAP because of the threats that are always out there. They had the wrong mindset understandably because of what they had gone through. They essentially were the abused dogs who wince anytime a hand comes towards them.
Had these two individuals been negotiating our JCBA I really believe we would have had that buyers remorse that Rez was talking about because we would have blown our load way too soon like many other groups did. They didn't have the ability to see the Forrest through the trees and they obviously weren't "reading" what the analysts, the market and our CEO even was saying.
Again Al NOW I think we are right perfectly in that sweet spot and maybe have squeezed the Lemon for as much juice as she has?
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WeAAsles
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If it does stand or come out to be that 3% that comes out to another .90 per hour. Add in a .50 or so shift diff and you're looking at around $31.50 range when it goes into effect? (But yes we should have more than 3% to make up for the PS shortfall against other airlines)
But that means based on TOS FT Employee including Holidays around $68,000 per year not counting retirement contributions.
I wouldn't call that too shabby personally.
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