JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Rook]

Hey
Doesn't DOH mean date of hire?
I was in a non union company that merged with a union company and I was told by CB that the union made the decision to only give me half credit for my part-time and that it the nature of the lessed amount of people you want to piss off!
I believe that you give everybody their date from day one.......date of hire! And let the chips fall as they may!
Rook

 

[Tim Nelson]

That is exactly what happened when US merged with AW. AW Tower was non Union at the time and they got their full seniority. What is the right thing to do? Have them put in and start day one? Seniority is like politics and religion, if you speak about it, an argument is sure to ensue.

P. Rez

While I haven't heard of anyone arguing for "Day 1", that is how it used to be years ago and certainly American didn't have no problem with that in the TWA merger. I don't think that is fair, but it also isn't fair to carry over dinosauric seniority policies of the old Piedmont regime either. Should be by DOH. Like I said, it doesn't affect me much, other than a couple months, but mostly Piedmont got hammered on this. There have been like 4 or 5 different companies and mergers, At some point, I would have thought that the union and company would recognize all of the mergers and reel in DOH back to where it ought to be, i.e., "Boots on the Ground".

 

[charlie Brown]

Hey
Doesn't DOH mean date of hire?
I was in a non union company that merged with a union company and I was told by CB that the union made the decision to only give me half credit for my part-time and that it the nature of the lessed amount of people you want to piss off!
I believe that you give everybody their date from day one.......date of hire! And let the chips fall as they may!
Rook

Rook
Wrong!! You were never told by me that the union decided to give you half credit for your PT. you were told that the union adopted the companies seniority policy that gave you half credit for your seniority. It was the company that gave you half credit for seniority, and like I said before. The IAM adopts the company seniority policy when they bring groups in. I don't agree with getting half credit for PT. However, I don't agree with straight DOH either. I don't believe a flight attendant or someone. From another work group should carry their doh to the ramp. I have always though date of entry into classification is the best policy, which would be date of hire for all that started and stayed on the ramp.

 

[Kev3188]

You were never told by me that the union decided to give you half credit for your PT. you were told that the union adopted the companies seniority policy that gave you half credit for your seniority.

Those sound like two different ways of saying the same thing...

 

[Racer X]

Those sound like two different ways of saying the same thing...

it sounds to me like the company had a seniority policy....not the union....then the company gave the union the policy that was implemented 

 

[Ramp Rogue]

This post is different from your other. First management has never been able to carry their seniority into a unionized work group. And as for the others above, that is going from one union shop to another. You stated the IAM always has had non union groups coming into the IAM start at day one seniority. I can't think of any, and I was hoping you knew of some since you posted that post. Just like fleet when we came into the union. We carried whatever seniority the company had given us. Same with the Aw merger. And now they are doing the same with this merger. My point is, when you argue your point to treat all the same. They will tell you that's exactly what they are doing. They let everyone carry the date the company has given them.

 
If a flight attendant with 10 years seniority  transfers to the ramp, and their starting day is tomorrow what would their seniority date for bidding be? Would they come to the ramp with 10 years seniority, or 1 day?
 
Rogue…..

 

[Ramp Rogue]

This post is different from your other. First management has never been able to carry their seniority into a unionized work group. And as for the others above, that is going from one union shop to another. You stated the IAM always has had non union groups coming into the IAM start at day one seniority. I can't think of any, and I was hoping you knew of some since you posted that post. Just like fleet when we came into the union. We carried whatever seniority the company had given us. Same with the Aw merger. And now they are doing the same with this merger. My point is, when you argue your point to treat all the same. They will tell you that's exactly what they are doing. They let everyone carry the date the company has given them.

 
They have had non iam individuals from management, stores, maintenance, flight attendants, transfer to the ramp and they did not bring their seniority with them. They started as day one employees on the ramp.
 
Rogue…..

 

[charlie Brown]

If a flight attendant with 10 years seniority  transfers to the ramp, and there starting day is tomorrow what would their seniority date for bidding be? Would they come to the ramp with 10 years seniority, or 1 day?
 
Rogue…..

Yes 1 day. They are already in a union coming into another union. I am asking if you know people that have been non union such as the AA tower planners and load planners, that the IAM has ever brought in and started them at day 1 seniority. I thought this was what you were originally talking about. My point is that the attorneys for the IAM have told me that they always inherit the seniority that the company gives them. Not saying I agree with that, but that's what they go by. It was just based on your post, I thought maybe you knew of a group that came in and didn't carry their seniority.

 

[charlie Brown]

Those sound like two different ways of saying the same thing...

Just making the point that the union never came up with a seniority policy that took time away from anyone. They did adopt the company policy that only gave people half credit. The IAM whether people agree or disagree, has always adapted the seniority policy that's in place when bringing new groups into the union.

 

[charlie Brown]

They have had non iam individuals from management, stores, maintenance, flight attendants, transfer to the ramp and they did not bring their seniority with them. They started as day one employees on the ramp.
 
Rogue…..

Ok, so I'll take your answer as a no. Surely your not saying that management should carry their time into a union work force are you. And as for the others, I have already stated they were already in a union coming into another union. I was asking about a group of employees that are non union that didn't get to carry their time coming into the IAM. But I'll assume since you keep talking about individuals, and not a group that has voted for or been accreeted into the union, then you don't know of any. I'll leave it alone. Again just thought you might know of some group that I didn't.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Of all of the airlines that make up the NEW AMERICAN, each brought a different seniority policy. Where some people with less seniority jump ahead of people with more seniority. No matter how you look at it, that is just not fair. Being in a union shop is all about being fair, and treating all employees equally. The very first day that an employee works on the ramp, that should be their seniority date. The NEW AMERICAN should go through their books and find the date that each of us started on the ramp, and give that date to the iam. That date should be your seniority date. That would put and end to all of the seniority arguments. You get in where you fit in. The one with the oldest seniority date on the ramp is #1 on the seniority list. The last one to become part of the ramp family is at the bottom of the seniority list.
 
Rogue…..

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Yes 1 day. They are already in a union coming into another union. I am asking if you know people that have been non union such as the AA tower planners and load planners, that the IAM has ever brought in and started them at day 1 seniority. I thought this was what you were originally talking about. My point is that the attorneys for the IAM have told me that they always inherit the seniority that the company gives them. Not saying I agree with that, but that's what they go by. It was just based on your post, I thought maybe you knew of a group that came in and didn't carry their seniority.

I know managers (non union) that came to the ramp and started with day 1 seniority. I also know ex-utility that have come to the ramp and started with day 1 seniority, and 2 from stores. I do not know of an entire group that did.
 
Rogue…..

 

[T5towbar]

Of all of the airlines that make up the NEW AMERICAN, each brought a different seniority policy. Where some people with less seniority jump ahead of people with more seniority. No matter how you look at it, that is just not fair. Being in a union shop is all about being fair, and treating all employees equally. The very first day that an employee works on the ramp, that should be their seniority date. The NEW AMERICAN should go through their books and find the date that each of us started on the ramp, and give that date to the iam. That date should be your seniority date. That would put and end to all of the seniority arguments. You get in where you fit in. The one with the oldest seniority date on the ramp is #1 on the seniority list. The last one to become part of the ramp family is at the bottom of the seniority list.
 
Rogue…..

I agree with your statement, but sometimes since mergers happen, things aren't always in Black & White.  Otherwise, making a master seniority list would be very easy with such policy as you describe. Plus, you have to factor in if the company has the CORRECT seniority dates for everybody involved?  That's where the disputes come into play.  Some will win.....some will lose.  

 

[AANOTOK]

Rook
Wrong!! You were never told by me that the union decided to give you half credit for your PT. you were told that the union adopted the companies seniority policy that gave you half credit for your seniority. It was the company that gave you half credit for seniority, and like I said before. The IAM adopts the company seniority policy when they bring groups in. I don't agree with getting half credit for PT. However, I don't agree with straight DOH either. I don't believe a flight attendant or someone. From another work group should carry their doh to the ramp. I have always though date of entry into classification is the best policy, which would be date of hire for all that started and stayed on the ramp.

My green...exactly!

 

[charlie Brown]

Of all of the airlines that make up the NEW AMERICAN, each brought a different seniority policy. Where some people with less seniority jump ahead of people with more seniority. No matter how you look at it, that is just not fair. Being in a union shop is all about being fair, and treating all employees equally. The very first day that an employee works on the ramp, that should be their seniority date. The NEW AMERICAN should go through their books and find the date that each of us started on the ramp, and give that date to the iam. That date should be your seniority date. That would put and end to all of the seniority arguments. You get in where you fit in. The one with the oldest seniority date on the ramp is #1 on the seniority list. The last one to become part of the ramp family is at the bottom of the seniority list.
 
Rogue…..

Personally, I would say you and I pretty much agree. But!!! And that's a big but! I am only telling you how the IAM does it, and from what I am told, will continue to do. I have also heard the arbitrator state in our meetings that ther has been so many acquisitions and mergers with this airline, and so many different scenarios with seniority used that we aren't going back and redoing anything. So I am pretty confident when I tell you that the seniority you have today, is what you will keep, and the AA tower and planners will be integrated with what they have today. And we will all live happily ever after.