JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[conehead777]

I think you understand my point. Tower was just let into the iam. Their seniority date should be the first day that they worked in a tower position as an iam member. They should not receive all of the previous time that they spent working in the tower as a non union member. That would put them ahead of a lot of iam members undeservedly.
 
Rogue…..

they had no choice they were put into the Iam by the nmb. Sorry dude but that will not happen. I know a tower planer who has 30 years why should she loose that just because you have low time and your peeved off. Be peeved at the union and nmb but do not take some ones seniority because they were forced in. they work in the tower well at laa they do. They bid on there own shift bids and vacations. Get a life dude stop trying to take people's seniority away

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

 
I think you understand my point. Tower was just let into the iam. Their seniority date should be the first day that they worked in a tower position as an iam member. They should not receive all of the previous time that they spent working in the tower as a non union member. That would put them ahead of a lot of iam members undeservedly.
 
Rogue…..

LAA tower people are keeping their seniority.Deal with it.

 

[psa8979]

I'm going to give my 2 cents worth on Seniority by giving YOU'LL good ol' boys  my 4 Seniority dates . #1 12/1/1974 PSA/ Crownair # 2 10/1/1977 PSA/ Crew Bus # 3 08/09/1979 PT/ PSA /Ramp/Ops. / Customer Service # 4 11/19/1979 PSA/ FT/ Ramp/Ops./ Customer Service. 07/01/2016 IAM F/S Seniority List. Hire Date 08/09/79 Classification Date 11/19/1979 . IMO to correct ALL ! wrongs you Brothers who have the power (ASSOCIATION)  should use DOH  for those who from day one worked in the NMB Class/Craft of Fleet Service . By the way CB,  WE' ll  (PSA/USAir/PIA)   were non-union and  no CBA  from 1991-1999 . Hope this helps . Good Luck ! 

 

[wrencher]

I'm in the same boat

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

That is exactly why the seniority system is so busted.
 
Take my experience for example.
 
I started in Fleet Service with the intention of transferring to electrical maintenance (I was an electrician before working for American Airlines). So instead of working a skilled job I was qualified to do I got "stuck" working in Fleet Service due to seniority "entrapment" resulting from consequences of Sept 11th. 
 
That is why I have strong feelings that seniority should be date of hire...... period. You should be able to go wherever you want IF you are qualified to do the job. 
 
I know not many agree with that opinion but I will tell you it sucks feeling "seniority locked" into a job and not being able to pursue other opportunities. 

That total comment is a mess and worthless!

Consider the source...

Worthless?
 
Today that post had 2 green. I guess at least a couple of forum patrons agree with my opinion.
 
It really doesn't matter. At the end of the day I really could not care less what you two think.
 
I don't need you to validate my opinion and I am not trying to win your approval.
 
If you want people to perceive you as honorable and intelligent men then you should have a point to make when you say something instead of just talking unsubstantiated trash. 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Being in a union shop is all about being fair, and treating all employees equally.

Just keep telling yourself that.
 
Fair is everyone pulling their own weight, not entitled parasites using their UNION seniority to hide from work.
 
Fair is equal treatment during a layoff, not red circles and UNION officers using their UNION position to bypass seniority after their shop is shut down.
 
Tell me again about how UNIONs are all about being fair.
 
The TWU is a good old boy club. It has been for years. 

 

[Kev3188]

Worthless?
 
It really doesn't matter. At the end of the day I really could not care less what you two think.
 
I don't need you to validate my opinion and I am not trying to win your approval.
 

  

And yet you still feel compelled to reply...

Just keep telling yourself that.
 
Fair is everyone pulling their own weight, not entitled parasites using their UNION seniority to hide from work.
 
Fair is equal treatment during a layoff, not red circles and UNION officers using their UNION position to bypass seniority after their shop is shut down.
 
Tell me again about how UNIONs are all about being fair.
 
The TWU is a good old boy club. It has been for years.

You are conflating your own experience at 514 with labor in general...

 

[Justme]

That is exactly what happened when US merged with AW. AW Tower was non Union at the time and they got their full seniority. What is the right thing to do? Have them put in and start day one? Seniority is like politics and religion, if you speak about it, an argument is sure to ensue.

P. Rez

And also with ground school instructors. AW were non union, US were TWU. All AW were brought in at their date of classification as g.s. instructors, they kept their company hire date for vacation only. 
 
But US had around 30 instructors furloughed for 5 or so years, and the deal was they had no adjustment to their seniority date (classification) so they were senior to some AW instructors who had more time in the job. 
 
It was a take it or leave it vote, and AW instructors voted it in.

 

[AANOTOK]

First La, I would like to take a moment to congratulate you on your "two" greens you were given on the comment we are debating. Obviously, at least two people agree with your "opinion". I happen to disagree with it and therefore, no green for you.
Secondly, my opinion is my opinion and I don't look for confirmation. I don't need colors to make me feel better. I have my opinion and belief and I really don't give a rats if anyone shares it.
 
As for the debate in question, no need to get into a long dragged out battle here like you and WeAAsles did. I know how you feel and you know how I do, simple as that. You have actually made many points about unions in general I agree with, this just ain't one of them.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

I agree with your statement, but sometimes since mergers happen, things aren't always in Black & White.  Otherwise, making a master seniority list would be very easy with such policy as you describe. Plus, you have to factor in if the company has the CORRECT seniority dates for everybody involved?  That's where the disputes come into play.  Some will win.....some will lose.  

Some will win...some will lose...some were born to siiiiing the blues.............  -Journey

 

[Worldport]

Personally, I would say you and I pretty much agree. But!!! And that's a big but! I am only telling you how the IAM does it, and from what I am told, will continue to do. I have also heard the arbitrator state in our meetings that ther has been so many acquisitions and mergers with this airline, and so many different scenarios with seniority used that we aren't going back and redoing anything. So I am pretty confident when I tell you that the seniority you have today, is what you will keep, and the AA tower and planners will be integrated with what they have today. And we will all live happily ever after.

Amen

 

[Tim Nelson]

So if tower is iam then our ops/tower peeps ought to be able to bid on that duty assignment bid?

 

[robbedagain]

Tim  in my station  our ops agents have their own bid assignment  and so does our catering     is it like that in ORD

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim  in my station  our ops agents have their own bid assignment  and so does our catering     is it like that in ORD

Yes but with the new tower peeps im wondering when tower peeps will be on our seniority roster. Clp blended already i think??

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

It really doesn't matter. At the end of the day I really could not care less what you two think.
 
I don't need you to validate my opinion and I am not trying to win your approval.

Secondly, my opinion is my opinion and I don't look for confirmation. I don't need colors to make me feel better. I have my opinion and belief and I really don't give a rats if anyone shares it.

You flatter me with your imitation sir.
 

As for the debate in question, no need to get into a long dragged out battle here like you and WeAAsles did. I know how you feel and you know how I do, simple as that

You give yourself far too much credit. Before this post I honestly took no notice of you.
 
That is not necessarily a bad thing. I just means we agree just enough that you don't grab my attention one way or the other.
 

You have actually made many points about unions in general I agree with, this just ain't one of them.

Do you have any specific reasons why?
 
Do you think someone with 20 years of service should start at day 1 seniority just because they want to seek new opportunities?
 
Would 1/2 credit or perhaps 1/4 credit for part time be an acceptable compromise? Is there any acceptable compromise?