JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[700UW]

Apples and Oranges.

Everyone knew that language was a bridge agreement.

IGM= I got mine.

You said it was ok for maintenance and the TWU to wait for PMUS fleet, but you don't want to wait if fleet is done before maintenance, which clearly shows you are part of the IGM crowd.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Apples and Oranges.
Everyone knew that language was a bridge agreement.
IGM= I got mine.
You said it was ok for maintenance and the TWU to wait for PMUS fleet, but you don't want to wait if fleet is done before maintenance, which clearly shows you are part of the IGM crowd.

What I said was that I appreciated the TWU waiting. But the TWU did so due to the benefit of a greater wage true up.
What benefit does fleet have to wait on mx?

My concern is that fleet service and mx negotiations are totally different metrics. Fleet has advanced as a craft due to its shelter competing against foreign workers. MX is competing globally and there is no supporting evidence from wn dl ua to suggest most heavy maintenance can be saved.

Politically, the 2 unions are in a political hotspot with mx since the expectations may cause an extensive delay. Fleet doesnt need to be a part of that delay and if wanting a fair contract as soon as possible makes me part of the igm club then sign me up.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok, then we simply disagree over this now. I just don't want us to get hung up over political bonfires within MX. Major airlines want complete overhauls done overseas and those are the issues at United as well. There hasn't been one major airline that has signed a MX transition agreement without wanting all overhaul work.I don't see any way out of negotiations if we wait on MX. And I don't think your position is held by anyone in negotiations. I mean, I would guess that our NC and the 2 unions already have a plan to either be independent in each negotiation or come out of negotiations together. The alternative would need an exit point, but if there is an exit point prior to a MX TA then we simply pissed away x amount of months. Either negotiate as independent entities or come out together. Anything wishy washy will be a lack of determination or discipline.BTW, aren't the dispatchers TWU? I like the independence.regards,

If I only went by how many mechanics I observe here on Forums behaved I would be the first one in line and you'd be behind me advocating that we leave them eating dust and get our business done and to hell with them.

But I really don't believe that all mechanics are like those on this site? They're just the loudest voices screaming like mad to be heard and want to keep their Country Club (I'm better than you) mentality.

Tim I don't think History is on your side here? The Mechanics did insist on and wait for you guys to get an agreement before putting it out to vote. And over at UAL the IAM brought out all their agreements at the same time. Plus at least for now it seems like all the Fleet Local's are onboard with not touching their Taxi and Towing work? So that should tell you that there is solidarity amongst the two groups in negotiations.

You're also still making an assumption that we'll be done before them?

I'm not exactly advocating waiting. I'm advocating we wait and see what happens further down the line seeing where the talks are at?

 

[WeAAsles]

What I said was that I appreciated the TWU waiting. But the TWU did so due to the benefit of a greater wage true up.
What benefit does fleet have to wait on mx?
My concern is that fleet service and mx negotiations are totally different metrics. Fleet has advanced as a craft due to its shelter competing against foreign workers. MX is competing globally and there is no supporting evidence from wn dl ua to suggest most heavy maintenance can be saved.
Politically, the 2 unions are in a political hotspot with mx since the expectations may cause an extensive delay. Fleet doesnt need to be a part of that delay and if wanting a fair contract as soon as possible makes me part of the igm club then sign me up.
regards,

The TWU didn't wait because any of us actually thought you would honestly secure what you did (Athough delighted by it and it does help) The TWU waited and supported you guys because there simply was no other choice if your negotiators weren't going to budge and join us.

As they say in Union parlance, they "yielded the floor" and showed support because that was the fastest way seen to get the two groups started together.

The TWU represents TWU members
The IAM represents IAM members
The Association (hopefully) represents the interests of both and always has that in mind?

 

[xUT]

The TWU didn't wait because any of us actually thought you would honestly secure what you did (Athough delighted by it and it does help) The TWU waited and supported you guys because there simply was no other choice if your negotiators weren't going to budge and join us.

As they say in Union parlance, they "yielded the floor" and showed support because that was the fastest way seen to get the two groups started together.

The TWU represents TWU members
The IAM represents IAM members
The Association (hopefully) represents the interests of both and always has that in mind?

Thanks for the comedy relief.

 

[WeAAsles]

Parker agreed to bring overhaul back in, you can't ignore the facts.
Just shows you are part of the IGM crowd.

I'd actually have to say that I fall about 70% into the IGM crowd. I've put in 21 years with 11 left to go. I think anyone should be able to have a little of the IGM mentality when they're on the downward slide of the career scale.

It just a horrible thing if that IGM mentality is all you care about. "Balance"

 

[WeAAsles]

Thanks for the comedy relief.

Back to the Water Cooler with you where you belong.

Thank you.

 

[700UW]

The IAM has always waited for every group to have a TA before bringing them out.

 

[Tim Nelson]

If I only went by how many mechanics I observe here on Forums behaved I would be the first one in line and you'd be behind me advocating that we leave them eating dust and get our business done and to hell with them.
But I really don't believe that all mechanics are like those on this site? They're just the loudest voices screaming like mad to be heard and want to keep their Country Club (I'm better than you) mentality.
Tim I don't think History is on your side here? The Mechanics did insist on and wait for you guys to get an agreement before putting it out to vote. And over at UAL the IAM brought out all their agreements at the same time. Plus at least for now it seems like all the Fleet Local's are onboard with not touching their Taxi and Towing work? So that should tell you that there is solidarity amongst the two groups in negotiations.
You're also still making an assumption that we'll be done before them?
I'm not exactly advocating waiting. I'm advocating we wait and see what happens further down the line seeing where the talks are at?

The iam never brought out mx at the same time as fleet at united prior to the iam being voted out. And I dont remember any time, other recently, when LUS fleet and LUS mx came out at the same time. What about LAA? Im curious if the fleet and mx ta's have consistently been brought out together. Yes, im assuming fleet will go much quicker because our craft has advanced, and the mx craft has dragged due to global competition. My concern is that fleet will be put on pause while mx fights over bringing in major overhaul work. Not saying Im right but if we use United as a comparable then mx american will have talks that drag on for years.

This conversation should be one in which all fleet service should be interested in. Im open to being convinced otherwise that somehow mx will find a quick solution to some super serious things going on in its craft. Is there going to be a difference between AA MX and UA MX? If so, then what will b the difference?

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

The IAM has always waited for every group to have a TA before bringing them out.

So if that's the accepted practice then I'm sure that both the TWU and the Company are well aware of this. I'm 50/50 on the idea if that's the right thing to do or not? An argument can be made that if one group has a deal and have to wait on another that has totally separate issues then if it was my group that's good to go, I'm not exactly being represented? 

But of course on the opposite side of the coin, there's strength in numbers and that Solidarity thing. 

 

[WeAAsles]

The iam never brought out mx at the same time as fleet at united prior to the iam being voted out. And I dont remember any time, other recently, when LUS fleet and LUS mx came out at the same time. What about LAA? Im curious if the fleet and mx ta's have consistently been brought out together. Yes, im assuming fleet will go much quicker because our craft has advanced, and the mx craft has dragged due to global competition. My concern is that fleet will be put on pause while mx fights over bringing in major overhaul work. Not saying Im right but if we use United as a comparable then mx american will have talks that drag on for years.

This conversation should be one in which all fleet service should be interested in. Im open to being convinced otherwise that somehow mx will find a quick solution to some super serious things going on in its craft. Is there going to be a difference between AA MX and UA MX? If so, then what will b the difference?

regards,

I was trying to think about this earlier but really can't recall? I think in 01 ALL the TA's were rolled out at the same time? the only non concessional contract we had before that in my career was the 1995 one that I hired on with. Don't know on that one either honestly. But I think they all became amendable at the same time so it would stand to reason that the TWU employs the same ideology as the IAM?

"Not saying Im right but if we use United as a comparable then mx american will have talks that drag on for years."

You would have to think through all the forced givebacks in BK that the NEW AA would have all the components they need to compete against what he other airlines do with their maintenance programs? For them it might not be as much about giving anything up but at least keeping what they have now? But if they ask for the World then yes it could take a long while? No different then if our guys overshoot their loads.

 
 

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW I can totally understand Tim's concern here after the IBT represented UAL mechanics voted no to their TA by 95%. Granted their were terrible items in that TA but 95% is a pretty extreme (And maybe Militant) stance.  

 

[700UW]

The IAM hasnt represented UA MX since 2003 and when they were all part of 141 all the CBAs became amendable at the same time and all were brought out at the same time.
 
Just like at TWA, William O'Driscoll told me about the time that mechanics, ramp, flight attendants all got good deals, and TW wanted to screw the agents and res, OD told them to call him when they want to deal fairly with the agents, and walked out on negotiations, when every group had a TA except the agents.  Didnt take long till his phone rang.

And UA does hardly any heavy maintenance in-house compared to AA.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The IAM has always waited for every group to have a TA before bringing them out.

that is incorrect

regards,

 

[700UW]

737-823