JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

BTW I can totally understand Tim's concern here after the IBT represented UAL mechanics voted no to their TA by 95%. Granted their were terrible items in that TA but 95% is a pretty extreme (And maybe Militant) stance.

This may be a real situation over at AA. Not in ANY case should a bargaining agent hold back fleet until another group which is far far greater behind the 8 ball gets a TA. When MX hits scope proposals, watch Parker want to mirror Delta and United. It will be an immediate impasse and months or years if MX wants to hard ball and gain scope, given its craft being eaten alive by foreign facilities. I'm not saying MX would be wrong, if I were a MX I would totally support the same views as the United MX and potentially our MX, BUT not at the expense of fleet. If it was only a month or two, then maybe, but my concern is the MX craft and industry comparables that indicate a depleting craft due to foreign facilities. Not saying I'm right, but Parker is going to have to become a MX trailblazer if he breaks the paradigm of the MX industry comparables.

And that's the story.

regards,

 

[700UW]

The sky is falling.

 

[WeAAsles]

This may be a real situation over at AA. Not in ANY case should a bargaining agent hold back fleet until another group which is far far greater behind the 8 ball gets a TA. When MX hits scope proposals, watch Parker want to mirror Delta and United. It will be an immediate impasse and months or years if MX wants to hard ball and gain scope, given its craft being eaten alive by foreign facilities. I'm not saying MX would be wrong, if I were a MX I would totally support the same views as the United MX and potentially our MX, BUT not at the expense of fleet. If it was only a month or two, then maybe, but my concern is the MX craft and industry comparables that indicate a depleting craft due to foreign facilities. Not saying I'm right, but Parker is going to have to become a MX trailblazer if he breaks the paradigm of the MX industry comparables.

And that's the story.

regards,

Well if Parker really is a man of his word he has been running around at those roadshows saying that we (they) wouldn't have to give anything up to get those promised raises? But what does that mean, not give anything up when it comes to those guys if they both have currently drastically different contracts when it equates to jobs?

I think there's also a lot more to it then what we understand and the best people who were able to explain things seem to have left Airline Forums? The one's I liked to read to try to understand things were (In no particular order) Bob Owens, RealityCk, TopDawg and Overspeed. Without those 4 commenting when I read the Maintenance threads I'm not learning anything anymore.

And even though this is a Fleet thread it does need to be a topic of conversation on what happens with the other groups to get to the end of our road? 

 

 

[WeAAsles]

The sky is falling.

"But I predict that these shortages combined with increased airline profits will begin to be reflected in the pilot and mechanic pay and benefits.  Young people with a passion for aviation can look to that field for their careers.  In addition to traditional piloting jobs, the expected growth in drones provides opportunities for a whole new batch of aviation-related jobs that people need to start training for now.  I believe 2014 will be the year that aviation careers begin to regain the luster they once had."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/01/04/2014-outlook-for-aviation-careers-brightens-with-looming-pilot-and-mechanic-shortages/#67da4a4820ff
 

John Goglia
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I write about the airline industry and aviation safety.

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I’m an independent aviation safety consultant and Adjunct Professor at Vaughn College of Aeronautics and Technology and regular monthly columnist for four aviation trade publications. I was a Member of the National Transportation Safety Board and airline mechanic for more than 30 years and was also the first and only aviation mechanic to ever serve as a Board Member. I co-authored two text books (Safety Management Systems in Aviation, Ashgate Publishing 2009 and Implementation of Safety Management Systems in Aviation, Ashgate Publishing 2011).
The author is a Forbes contributor. The opinions expressed are those of the writer.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Parker says a lot of things.What he says at these town hall propagnda sessions needs to be taken with a grain of salt the size of a bank safe.
 
This is the script the company has written and they're reciting their lines perfectly.
 
One must ensure all company guidelines are followed and that safety is not compromised in the name of MBR.
 
Get hurt loading bags in the alley or standing on a belt tossing NOTOC paperwork at an open cockpit window and see how quick they bang you for not working safely.

 

[700UW]

You do know he was an IAM lead mechanic in BOS?
 
The first union mechanic appointed to the NTSB.

Was very active flight safety member when he was in BOS.

 

[WeAAsles]

Parker says a lot of things.What he says at these town hall propagnda sessions needs to be taken with a grain of salt the size of a bank safe.
 
This is the script the company has written and they're reciting their lines perfectly.
 
One must ensure all company guidelines are followed and that safety is not compromised in the name of MBR.
 
Get hurt loading bags in the alley or standing on a belt tossing NOTOC paperwork at an open cockpit window and see how quick they bang you for not working safely.

We should have been consistent about our personal safety from day 1 that we entered the job and the old timers should have drilled that into our heads. Sad to point out how many people I know now even younger than me that I hired on with who broke themselves.

Only we can take care of ourselves. No one else including the company is going to do it for us. And when you stand in front of that Judge suing the company for a Workmans comp claim the first things the company lawyers will ask were # 1 Did the company teach you how to do the job correctly and safely? And # 2 were you adhering to what the company taught you?

And trust me they keep a file of EVERY training record we've ever done and signed both manually and through the computer. So if you did anything unsafe the judge is going to say this to you.

"CLAIM DENIED"

 

[WeAAsles]

You do know he was an IAM lead mechanic in BOS?
 
The first union mechanic appointed to the NTSB.

Was very active flight safety member when he was in BOS.

It was just something I found and when I read the mans credentials he was a very credible source to quote. Besides the fact he's right and "most" groups in the big 4 have been seeing gains since 2014. Aircraft Maintenance at 3 carriers has been the only one besides us who haven't.

Yet.

 

[Jester]

I'd actually have to say that I fall about 70% into the IGM crowd. I've put in 21 years with 11 left to go. I think anyone should be able to have a little of the IGM mentality when they're on the downward slide of the career scale.

It just a horrible thing if that IGM mentality is all you care about. "Balance"

 
I have flown to IGM when we had DHC-8s and I just don't know if I could recommend the place... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingman_Airport_(Arizona)
 
As for the issue of being tied to MX on the contracts, my concern is that we become like the pilots and FA's who were tied at the hip with each other as their work schedules were somewhat dependent upon each other.  The results was nearly 6 years of the FAs waiting until they finally become tired of waiting and did their own deal, if I recall correctly.  I have no doubt the Company was quite happy over the financial saving, and it was a nice way for the (former) Tempe boys to window dress their bottom line while looking for a merging partner.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
I have flown to IGM when we had DHC-8s and I just don't know if I could recommend the place... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingman_Airport_(Arizona)
 
 

Un no. That's not a place I would be interested in working at. Maybe visiting? How about trying this one on for size? This is where the USAF wanted to send me after I had graduated from Tech School. Suffice it to say, no this city boy from Queens was not interested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holloman_Air_Force_Base
 
 

 
As for the issue of being tied to MX on the contracts, my concern is that we become like the pilots and FA's who were tied at the hip with each other as their work schedules were somewhat dependent upon each other.  The results was nearly 6 years of the FAs waiting until they finally become tired of waiting and did their own deal, if I recall correctly.  I have no doubt the Company was quite happy over the financial saving, and it was a nice way for the (former) Tempe boys to window dress their bottom line while looking for a merging partner.

What years were these Jester? Was any of this during those years before, after or during all those runs through the BK court system?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW no one is forgetting the topic of this thread. Today was day 2 of a three week stretch so we won't get an update on anything until Friday that we can then discuss. A friend of mine in the room did send me a hilarious You Tube today but it is Political and and in our Politically correct state of America today someone might take offense? I'll post it in the Water cooler (no personal Political leaning meant by it)  

 

[700UW]

FAs at US never went six years in negotiations.

 

[WeAAsles]

FAs at US never went six years in negotiations.

Amtrak was the longest I ever heard of. 8 psychopathic years.

http://ibew.org/articles/08daily/0801/Amtrak%20WAGE%20AND%20RULE%20AGREEMENT.pdf

 

[700UW]

The railroads have had their CBAs legislated by Congress before.

 

[Kev3188]

Goglia has been on TV a couple of times as well. Very interesting (and learned) guy...