JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

LGA AA Bagroom hanger roof was just blown off today.

https://thepointsguy.com/2018/03/lga-hangar-roof/

 

[cltrat]

Question??
You have stated many times on here that fleet is done since August and we are waiting on mechanics. You have also stated that catering was good. So my question is, if fleet was done in August and catering was good, how can it be gone now??
I really wish you would tell us that are in negotiations what we have so it would save us all a lot of time, and hassle of going over everything multiple times.

I asked the same when he said jay,pj and myself were responsible for losing LUS heathcare,I’m still waiting for an answer, sort of like all of us are waiting for prove the deal is done

 

[WeAAsles]

I asked the same when he said jay,pj and myself were responsible for losing LUS heathcare,I’m still waiting for an answer, sort of like all of us are waiting for prove the deal is done

Wait a minute. Tim said it was me who bamboozled and hoodwinked you all into “coughing up” your healthcare for cash?

 

[charlie Brown]

I asked the same when he said jay,pj and myself were responsible for losing LUS heathcare,I’m still waiting for an answer, sort of like all of us are waiting for prove the deal is done

YES!!!! You, PJ and WAAsles, and Jaydeman is to blame, if we don’t keep our LUS insurance. 4 guys have that much power!!. I think that might be a big part of his problem. He doesn’t comprehend numbers that well. He thinks two or three or four means everyone!! But that’s fine. Hopefully he will continue to feel that way. We can only hope.

 

[Tim Nelson]

With catering now gone, maybe at least they get a few cargo jobs for crumbs? I told people but they dont listen. Sito must not be telling everything to the boys down the hall. Crazy! Hell we could have got a cash grab for catering, health care and pt in about 5 minutes of negotiations. Wth?

 

[charlie Brown]

With catering now gone, maybe at least they get a few cargo jobs for crumbs? I told people but they dont listen. Sito must not be telling everything to the boys down the hall. Crazy! Hell we could have got a cash grab for catering, health care and pt in about 5 minutes of negotiations. Wth?

Yea your right. We just don’t listen!! So tell me since you know. Did Sito change his mind about catering from August when you said it was good? What made him change his mind?

 

[WeAAsles]

With catering now gone, maybe at least they get a few cargo jobs for crumbs? I told people but they dont listen. Sito must not be telling everything to the boys down the hall. Crazy! Hell we could have got a cash grab for catering, health care and pt in about 5 minutes of negotiations. Wth?

Hey man aren’t you that schmuck that just got slaughtered with the entire Country watching you in some election? Ouch, sad.

Ho Ho Ho.

 

[B737 driver]

LGA AA Bagroom hanger roof was just blown off today.

https://thepointsguy.com/2018/03/lga-hangar-roof/

Wow I have borrowed that hangar before to repair SWA birds, when on a downline.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wow I have borrowed that hangar before to repair SWA birds, when on a downline.

Actually it’s the next hanger down from that one that takes planes. That one is full of bag piers.

 

[Jetloader]

Actually it’s the next hanger down from that one that takes planes. That one is full of bag piers.

It's HANGAR...

 

[pjirish317]

The chances of getting the current IAM medical are slim. If they even entertain the thought then they will look for steep cuts elsewhere.

For the IAM, the sacrifice would be their medical and in exchange, they could minimize cuts elsewhere such as with some Scope language.

The counter from the Company will be in one big piece with any changes for the positive would mean to take away from somewhere else. The medical piece would be their "must have."

NYer,
Question for you. Why do you think the chances of getting our current medical are slim? Honestly, I can't figure for the life of me why people think this way? Why not take a stand and demand that EVERYBODY gets our medical? Demand that we get INDUSTRY LEADING. There shouldn't be any "cuts" anywhere. We shouldn't have to "buy" any enhancements at all. No horse trading for stuff. Like I have said before, some (not all) of you AAer's have Stockholm syndrome when it comes to some stuff, like the medical. Have you been so beat down that all you will take is crumbs here? I just don't get it. I don't get why you insist that we have to take "cuts" in one area to enhance another. I hate to say it but I am darn glad you are not in negotiations, you would have sold the farm for peanuts so to speak.

Who cares what the company's "must have's" are really. I would bet that they "must have" a ton of stuff. It doesn't mean that they get those "must have's" now does it? Why would the association give up a medical plan that survived 2, yes that's 2 bankruptcies, a JCBA agreement, and a standalone agreement as the #5 carrier before all the merger mania. Just because the company asked for it, or that is was on the company's "must have" list. Give me a better reason than "the company wants it" or that it's a "must have", or that because everybody else has it that we should automatically have to take it. One good reason other than those I have mentioned. Can you offer one? Seriously, I don't get you and your defeatist attitude.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yea your right. We just don’t listen!! So tell me since you know. Did Sito change his mind about catering from August when you said it was good? What made him change his mind?

I dunno. Last August, Catering was fine. I haven't any idea on why that changed. Fly didn't tell me the particulars. I'll let you know if I find out. But my guess is that the company just dictated what it needed and wants this to be a wrap soon. Remember, it's second hand info, I'm not in the room. I hope it's inaccurate!

 

[NYer]

NYer,
Question for you. Why do you think the chances of getting our current medical are slim? Honestly, I can't figure for the life of me why people think this way? Why not take a stand and demand that EVERYBODY gets our medical? Demand that we get INDUSTRY LEADING. There shouldn't be any "cuts" anywhere. We shouldn't have to "buy" any enhancements at all. No horse trading for stuff. Like I have said before, some (not all) of you AAer's have Stockholm syndrome when it comes to some stuff, like the medical. Have you been so beat down that all you will take is crumbs here? I just don't get it. I don't get why you insist that we have to take "cuts" in one area to enhance another. I hate to say it but I am darn glad you are not in negotiations, you would have sold the farm for peanuts so to speak.

Who cares what the company's "must have's" are really. I would bet that they "must have" a ton of stuff. It doesn't mean that they get those "must have's" now does it? Why would the association give up a medical plan that survived 2, yes that's 2 bankruptcies, a JCBA agreement, and a standalone agreement as the #5 carrier before all the merger mania. Just because the company asked for it, or that is was on the company's "must have" list. Give me a better reason than "the company wants it" or that it's a "must have", or that because everybody else has it that we should automatically have to take it. One good reason other than those I have mentioned. Can you offer one? Seriously, I don't get you and your defeatist attitude.

Well, you said not to mention the reasons it will happen, such as the airline's desire to get all the work groups on the same plans.

Believing the medical won't survive doesn't mean I believe it should just be given away or not fought for. If this process takes another 2 years because of that fight I'm one of the few that would understand. As a matter of fact, many in this blog believed this would be a quick and easy process, but I've been sharing that it would not and it's because of reasons like this.

Unfortunately, our negotiations process under the NMB gives us little wiggle room to make a stand. All we can really do is not agree to something but so can the airline. At a certain point that makes it impossible to force anything and a compromise would eventually be reached which is what the NMB process is designed for.

That being the case, the airline would present their must have which would be a position they don't move away from. If I were in the IAM shoes, I'd understand if we kept the status quo indefinitely.

That would be the only way to keep your current medical. As a negotiator, in seeing the landscape and knowing the medical is a must have don't be surprised if that is used as leverage to try and minimize negative changes elsewhere in the JCBA.

Members focus on the profits to get what they want (during bad times it's the same argument but the airline is accused of hiding money to artificially create a loss), but airlines are copy cats and they want to have the same labor costs as their competitors, as do the stockholder. To see what the airline wants we just need to look at the other legacy airlines and that's what we'll be fighting in negotiations, those trends. You know who else focuses on those trends? The NMB.

 

[pjirish317]

Well, you said not to mention the reasons it will happen, such as the airline's desire to get all the work groups on the same plans.

Believing the medical won't survive doesn't mean I believe it should just be given away or not fought for. If this process takes another 2 years because of that fight I'm one of the few that would understand. As a matter of fact, many in this blog believed this would be a quick and easy process, but I've been sharing that it would not and it's because of reasons like this.

Unfortunately, our negotiations process under the NMB gives us little wiggle room to make a stand. All we can really do is not agree to something but so can the airline. At a certain point that makes it impossible to force anything and a compromise would eventually be reached which is what the NMB process is designed for.

That being the case, the airline would present their must have which would be a position they don't move away from. If I were in the IAM shoes, I'd understand if we kept the status quo indefinitely.

That would be the only way to keep your current medical. As a negotiator, in seeing the landscape and knowing the medical is a must have don't be surprised if that is used as leverage to try and minimize negative changes elsewhere in the JCBA.


Members focus on the profits to get what they want (during bad times it's the same argument but the airline is accused of hiding money to artificially create a loss), but airlines are copy cats and they want to have the same labor costs as their competitors, as do the stockholder. To see what the airline wants we just need to look at the other legacy airlines and that's what we'll be fighting in negotiations, those trends. You know who else focuses on those trends? The NMB.

Why should there be ANY negative changes to this JCBA? You still think we have to "buy" any and all enhancements with givebacks on other stuff? Like I said before "Stockholm Syndrome".



Fantastic non-answer. I want this JCBA done ASAP. But I am not willing to just settle because the company wants us to. You keep citing the NMB this, the NMB that. I hope we make it to and enter Section 6 talks. Because if that happens, it can be probably another 4-6 years before a JCBA is reached. There by destroying ole dougies plans and planned synergies. You see the company is more interested in getting this deal done that we are. They need these synergies. We do not. The real question is how much are they willing to pay for them? We are not and should not "pay" for any enhancements.

 

[NYer]

Why should there be ANY negative changes to this JCBA? You still think we have to "buy" any and all enhancements with givebacks on other stuff? Like I said before "Stockholm Syndrome".



Fantastic non-answer. I want this JCBA done ASAP. But I am not willing to just settle because the company wants us to. You keep citing the NMB this, the NMB that. I hope we make it to and enter Section 6 talks. Because if that happens, it can be probably another 4-6 years before a JCBA is reached. There by destroying ole dougies plans and planned synergies. You see the company is more interested in getting this deal done that we are. They need these synergies. We do not. The real question is how much are they willing to pay for them? We are not and should not "pay" for any enhancements.

There shouldn't be any negative in any contract in an industry that's making so much profit. However, as businesses the airlines will want to match the costs of other airlines, as their shareholders expect, and that being the case we are not only fighting our airline but we're also fighting changes made at UA and DL. When that happens with the positives it doesn't matter much, like wages. When it happens with other things, like medical, not so much.

Section 6 is probably a worse place to argue to keep the medical because in that arena we're going against the airline and the NMB.

As I said, the IAM side would be more than willing to play the waiting game in trying to protect their medical, something I understand and believe the TWU would do if the roles were reversed.

The airline want the synergies, I agree, but not at all costs. They'll hold the line on their must have and the best defense against that would be no deal. I don't believe there is a deal with the medical intact so the next best thing would be to delay the change.