JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

Sorry bout leaving JB out Josh but since you bash AA and LUS (though the latter is no longer in existence) fly DL UA SW or JB But I also find it interesting that a financials numbers guy you are has access to what an AA employee would somethings fishy there

I directed WeAA or anyone who doubted me on the status of the S80 fleet to check DECS, provided they have such access.

There’s other places to get the info about specific frames in a carriers fleet like registry.faa.gov, AirFleets.net, Ascend (paid), topics on airliners.net or RZjets.net. I personally don’t have access to DECS.

Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

I directed WeAA or anyone who doubted me on the status of the S80 fleet to check DECS, provided they have such access.

There’s other places to get the info about specific frames in a carriers fleet like registry.faa.gov, AirFleets.net, Ascend (paid), topics on airliners.net or RZjets.net. I personally don’t have access to DECS.

Josh

This is “supposed” to be a AA Fleet Service Negotiations thread but unfortunately it does seem like it’s become a hodge podge of all sorts of storage space.

Josh since you seem to want to talk about all the items you can think of in the AA and related encyclopedia, why don’t you start individual threads?

Oh and I never asked you for any info on the S 80 Fleet or information on IAM Union Brother Sito.

What I have asked you of course you never answer, lol.

 

[737823]

This is “supposed” to be a AA Fleet Service Negotiations thread but unfortunately it does seem like it’s become a hodge podge of all sorts of storage space.

Josh since you seem to want to talk about all the items you can think of in the AA and related encyclopedia, why don’t you start individual threads?

Oh and I never asked you for any info on the S 80 Fleet or information on IAM Union Brother Sito.

What I have asked you of course you never answer, lol.

You responded to another post by someone else that you didn’t know about Sito, I told you he came from TWA and said you get opinions and talk to other LLCers who have worked with him at TW. Also quoted Bobs perspective and opinion from a prior post.

My reference to the S80s was a joke that while TWA transaction was nearly two decades ago both AA has some TW aircraft active and the IAM still has leadership who originated in TWA and wonder if the TWA S80s will be fully retired or the TW leaders leave the IAM first, that’s all. And it is factually true and widely documented publicly online that the TWA MD-83s are the final frames McDonnell Douglas produced and are/were the newest in AA’s active S80 fleet.

Josh

 

[bob@las-AA]

Unions can maintain their independence but we would collectively be better equipped to battle the airlines in contract negotiations by being able to prioritize out wants throughout all work groups at all airlines.

The airlines, for decades, have aimed to get what another airline was able to extract from their workers. I remember being in JFK in the early 90's and noticed from day to the next how Delta eliminated their cabin workers and made them a vendor supplied workforce. That cause other airlines to seek the same with their workgroups because of them getting to maintain the same Labor expenses.

Today, most of us compare what other airline workers get paid and want the same, plus more. The airlines do the same thing but on the opposite end of the scale.

Knowing that, we haven't modified our approach towards negotiations. Aside from that, we haven't pooled our unions to collectively stand on something and show the industry that none of the unions plan to give in on outsourcing, for example. Rather one group gets picked off, usually the weakest because their airline may be in a precarious financial state, and eventually the other groups are asked for the same.

We just argue about AMFA v TWU, Association v TWU, Association v IAM, TWU v IAM but the airlines seem to work together while we fight each other.

I will agree, to a degree, the way negotiations are done need adjustments, but when the world was affected by the financial meltdown, and a grass roots movement called “Occupy Wall Street”, what seemed to be a good idea at the time, later turning into just another reason to cause violence and rioting. In the end, and years later, big business haven’t learned the lessons from that.

 

[WeAAsles]

You responded to another post by someone else that you didn’t know about Sito, I told you he came from TWA and said you get opinions and talk to other LLCers who have worked with him at TW. Also quoted Bobs perspective and opinion from a prior post.

My reference to the S80s was a joke that while TWA transaction was nearly two decades ago both AA has some TW aircraft active and the IAM still has leadership who originated in TWA and wonder if the TWA S80s will be fully retired or the TW leaders leave the IAM first, that’s all. And it is factually true and widely documented publicly online that the TWA MD-83s are the final frames McDonnell Douglas produced and are/were the newest in AA’s active S80 fleet.

Josh

I didn’t say I didn’t know “about” Sito, I said I didn’t know him “personally” or had ever spoken to him on any “Telephone Communication Device”

I also said I didn’t have any need to.

Nothing personal to any IAM Members but I’m a TWU Member and currently am quite satisfied with my Representatives and Represention.

And I think you like to joke often on these pages but your jokes have yet to be humorous except maybe to you in your own mind? Meaning only you are in on your own jokes.

 

[bob@las-AA]

I didn’t say I didn’t know “about” Sito, I said I didn’t know him “personally” or had ever spoken to him on any “Telephone Communication Device”

I also said I didn’t have any need to.

Nothing personal to any IAM Members but I’m a TWU Member and currently am quite satisfied with my Representatives and Represention.

And I think you like to joke often on these pages but your jokes have yet to be humorous except maybe to you in your own mind? Meaning only you are in on your own jokes.

“Telephone communications devices” or Star Trek communicators

 

[WeAAsles]

So next week there will be a small gathering of some of the Negotiators in DFW. Rumor is that again the Company Negotiators have stated they want to wrap this thing up and get it done.

Alright well yes we all know Holiday season is coming but again ONE official week till the end of the year is totally ridiculous.

There should be at least two maybe even three more weeks of talks scheduled before the end of the year if they were really serious.

 

[WeAAsles]

“Telephone communications devices” or Star Trek communicators

It seems many on Forums are lacking English grammatical comprehension understanding skills. So the reason why I feel compelled to attempt to be so literate and precise in what I write.

In other words.

It’s F’n annoying how stupid some people are on here. ;-)

 

[NYer]

I will agree, to a degree, the way negotiations are done need adjustments, but when the world was affected by the financial meltdown, and a grass roots movement called “Occupy Wall Street”, what seemed to be a good idea at the time, later turning into just another reason to cause violence and rioting. In the end, and years later, big business haven’t learned the lessons from that.

Back to the same argument. Unless we start together and fight a common cause, Corporate America wins. They adjust, we don't.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Corporate America wins when leaders capitulate to management.

 

[NYer]

Corporate America wins when leaders capitulate to management.

The alternative seems to be to hold the line unless they agree to demands.

In doing so, another airline group can be force to move the goal posts thereby taking everyone else with them.

The NMB process is not in our favor, yet most decide to go that route rather than make incremental advances.

In contrast, the airlines have been making incremental changes going the opposite way for the last 30+ years.

 

[WeAAsles]

Corporate America wins when leaders capitulate to management.

You might find this interesting. I stopped in McDonalds the other day for a little breakfast sandwich and noticed they had a Hiring sign up. The sign said what they offered and the first line said

“Competitive wages”

So I pointed it out to all the employees

“Isn’t it great that they offer competitive wages. They don’t say they offer good or great wages. No it’s competitive.

So everyone else in the neighborhood is paying chit, we here at this McDonalds promise to pay you chit too”

I had them all cracking up as they said damn right.

 

[737823]

You might find this interesting. I stopped in McDonalds the other day for a little breakfast sandwich and noticed they had a Hiring sign up. The sign said what they offered and the first line said

“Competitive wages”

So I pointed it out to all the employees

“Isn’t it great that they offer competitive wages. They don’t say they offer good or great wages. No it’s competitive.

So everyone else in the neighborhood is paying chit, we here at this McDonalds promise to pay you chit too”

I had them all cracking up as they said damn right.

Taunting low wage workers who have no job security or benefits? Come on WeAA that’s inconsiderate and insensitive. I know you’re not only placated but feel well off making ~$70k as a TOS FSC but that’s not tactful to rub in their faces.

Josh

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Ive been on strike against US in 1992.

The members have the power to effect the operation, how do you think the midterm raises happened?

Better to stand up straight then to be on your knees in fear.

This isnt concessionary bargaining, Im being to agree with WeAAsles statement that many of you on the AA side suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

Such defeatism, its quite sad.

 

[737823]

Ive been on strike against US in 1992.

The members have the power to effect the operation, how do you think the midterm raises happened?

Better to stand up straight then to be on your knees in fear.

This isnt concessionary bargaining, Im being to agree with WeAAsles statement that many of you on the AA side suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

Such defeatism, its quite sad.

The LAA has only had the 2003 RPA (which only passed because of the IAM conditioned vote yes concessionistas you brought here from TWA) and then the bankruptcy.

USAIR IAM had two rounds of concessions in BK 1 (2002) and one additional round in BK 2 (2005), so the TWU has been better and without the LLCers the RPA would not have passed.

Josh