JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[737823]

Posted membership gains every year since 2009, the worst economic downturn in generations. AMFA has stayed true to principles of unionism and isn’t passing off UGE and McGee $10/hr low wage low benefit outfits as union jobs. The IAM is pivoting to cater to these low wage type organizations and even spoke about it in the IAM journal.

Josh

 

[737823]

Gotta love someone posing as a union activist citing data from UnionFacts.com/Center for Union Facts. Admittedly they just scrape the data from the DOL but it’s almost as comical as the TWU’s justification for terminating Don V that he was an “employee at will”.

http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/videtich-vs-the-twu.57255/

Josh

 

[NYer]

And I’m telling it is. Feel free to take a strike vote, it is just pointless posturing and will demonstrate nothing. NMB will never release a union to self help that would result in a country wide disruption of air travel. What rock have you been living under.

That's correct.

In an era where 4 airlines control 80+% of the total capacity and have regional strongholds with little competition, it is highly improbable for a legacy airline to ever strike again.

As an example, in the 90's, when the President intervened we had airlines like TWA, America West & US Airways. Today, all those are called American Airlines. They wouldn't let one airline strike, let alone four.

The interruption in commerce, which is what the NMB protects, takes into consideration all the points an airline touches and as they have become behemoths their influence in commerce has grown. Their main sources of revenue and focus has been the business community, not the leisure community, so again the interruption today is compounded from years past.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Gotta love someone posing as a union activist citing data from UnionFacts.com/Center for Union Facts. Admittedly they just scrape the data from the DOL but it’s almost as comical as the TWU’s justification for terminating Don V that he was an “employee at will”.

http://www.airlineforums.com/threads/videtich-vs-the-twu.57255/

Josh

Is that like some posing as a “banker”, who hates the IAM and has access to AA information that only an employee would be able to obtain?

 

[Kev3188]

“In an era where 4 airlines control 80+% of the total capacity and have regional strongholds with little competition, it is highly improbable for a legacy airline to ever strike again.”


It’s highly improbable because Labor has allowed itself to be neutered. It doesn’t help when people of influence like NYer tow that line.

That industry consolidation should be used as leverage by the masses. Instead we somehow accept it as an anchor. Smh.

 

[swamt]

people in hell want ice water but they don't get it.
maybe if you screw enough people financially your company will get you a jet.




actually unlike you sticking your opinions on what should happy here, not many of us give a chit what happens at SW I do know 5 years and counting with no meetings for months is a pretty piss poor return on investment.

I am only here for 2 reasons. One most all know. The other, I will be here to tell you guys "told you so" when you guys get your T/A handed to you and you guys just crap over what's in it, it will NOT be industry leading as promised by both asso. and company. You guys should have went to a vote for union representation not forced into this asso. BS slammed down your throats.

 

[NYer]

“In an era where 4 airlines control 80+% of the total capacity and have regional strongholds with little competition, it is highly improbable for a legacy airline to ever strike again.”


It’s highly improbable because Labor has allowed itself to be neutered. It doesn’t help when people of influence like NYer tow that line.

That industry consolidation should be used as leverage by the masses. Instead we somehow accept it as an anchor. Smh.

You'd be correct if the unions worked in conjuction with each other, which they don't. As time goes by they become more splintered while those we fight consolidate.

We can ignore the realities of what we face and oppose the messenger but if we don't adapt to the changes around us then we will surely continue to be picked off. We just seem to argue and point fingers at each rather than acknowledge and learn about the changes.

If we want to blame each other and not adjust to our surroundings, then so be it. When we lose the battles it won't be because we didn't know, it will be because we didn't adjust.

 

[WeAAsles]

“In an era where 4 airlines control 80+% of the total capacity and have regional strongholds with little competition, it is highly improbable for a legacy airline to ever strike again.”


It’s highly improbable because Labor has allowed itself to be neutered. It doesn’t help when people of influence like NYer tow that line.

That industry consolidation should be used as leverage by the masses. Instead we somehow accept it as an anchor. Smh.

Breaking the Horse

It is important that the horse is familiar with the bridle and bit and feels comfortable with them. Accomplishing this is a long process and involves introducing the bit into the mouth of the horse slowly and making sure that it does not rub and fits perfectly. Teaching a horse to accept the bridle and bit does not happen overnight, and you may need the help of an expert to accomplish it.

The saddle should be introduced slowly as well with the trainer first getting the horse used to the pad that goes under the saddle, if there is one, and then ultimately the saddle and girth.

Once this has happened, and the horse is well verse in your commands, it is time to ride the horse. To do this move, calmly put your foot into the stirrup and your hands on the saddle and hoist yourself up. You can talk to your horse as well, in a reassuring tone. The first ride should not be long, but be sure your horse knows you are in charge.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am only here for 2 reasons. One most all know. The other, I will be here to tell you guys "told you so" when you guys get your T/A handed to you and you guys just crap over what's in it, it will NOT be industry leading as promised by both asso. and company. You guys should have went to a vote for union representation not forced into this asso. BS slammed down your throats.

You’re here because I moved into your head and brought in furniture, wall paintings and house plants.

I’m a head squatter. I sit in your head and never leave. There could be medical assistance to help you though?

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

I am only here for 2 reasons. One most all know. The other, I will be here to tell you guys "told you so" when you guys get your T/A handed to you and you guys just crap over what's in it, it will NOT be industry leading as promised by both asso. and company. You guys should have went to a vote for union representation not forced into this asso. BS slammed down your throats.

Just around two years and 32 articles done and four left.

And even Charlie Brown stated the majority of articles are all improvements.

You been in negotiations for over five years with no end in sight.

 

[swamt]

You'd be correct if the unions worked in conjuction with each other, which they don't. As time goes by they become more splintered while those we fight consolidate.

We can ignore the realities of what we face and oppose the messenger but if we don't adapt to the changes around us then we will surely continue to be picked off. We just seem to argue and point fingers at each rather than acknowledge and learn about the changes.

If we want to blame each other and not adjust to our surroundings, then so be it. When we lose the battles it won't be because we didn't know, it will be because we didn't adjust.

Some adjustment is required as you state. The question is what kind of adjustments are you referring to? I have some ideas, but most all the industrial unions will not agree to them and that would be the biggest hold up. To this day I am a little surprised some or at least one industrial union has not made an adjustment by now. Instead two industrials made a move to protect them even more by shoving this self made asso. down the throats of all it's members without a single voice about it. If the industrials would implement some basic rule and bylaw changes within their organizations they would have no problem staying and growing further. But, they just won't do it in order to protect the leaders and officers at all cost.
Notes: I am not saying all airlines go AMFA. Just saying if existing industrial unions would fathom changing some basic bylaws where the membership has all power on certain issues and get more involved and could attend negotiations would be a huge movement this is the change I refer to...

 

[NYer]

Some adjustment is required as you state. The question is what kind of adjustments are you referring to? I have some ideas, but most all the industrial unions will not agree to them and that would be the biggest hold up. To this day I am a little surprised some or at least one industrial union has not made an adjustment by now. Instead two industrials made a move to protect them even more by shoving this self made asso. down the throats of all it's members without a single voice about it. If the industrials would implement some basic rule and bylaw changes within their organizations they would have no problem staying and growing further. But, they just won't do it in order to protect the leaders and officers at all cost.
Notes: I am not saying all airlines go AMFA. Just saying if existing industrial unions would fathom changing some basic bylaws where the membership has all power on certain issues and get more involved and could attend negotiations would be a huge movement this is the change I refer to...

The more we separate ourselves the more we collectively lose.

 

[WeAAsles]

Just around two years and 32 articles done and four left.

And even Charlie Brown stated the majority of articles are all improvements.

You been in negotiations for over five years with no end in sight.

I’d be willing to bet that given side by side comparisons (For Fleet) that we WILL have industry leading in ALL areas of our JCBA, comparing to IAM UAL and TWU SWA. Delta has no contract to compare to.

Curently AA Fleet (combined) have more employees than all 3 compared competitors. Base wages are also currently top in the industry and we are still negotiating where both UAL and SWA are locked in.

 

[swamt]

Just around two years and 32 articles done and four left.

And even Charlie Brown stated the majority of articles are all improvements.

You been in negotiations for over five years with no end in sight.

That's because our NC is not just laying down and accepting all ask from the company. (not saying your is now) but they have in the past big time. Until they show something different we can only expect the same that we have seen for well over 30 years.
BTW: you guys are not done, your post indicates that you will be done soon. I will have to disagree, I would be willing to bet the membership tells this NC to get back to the table and nego. an "industry leading contract" as promised by the TWU, the IAM as well as the company man Parker himself. At least our union and NC is addressing everything the membership wants and asked for. Just FYI. Our real nego's did not start until Aug of 2016 when the company started nego in good faith, somewhat. They stalled the 5 years to get what GK said and wanted a 5 year pay freeze. But, the membership said they will have to make up for that 5 year pay freeze when it comes time. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but our good faith nego's just started last year in Aug. Why do you think it's been so quiet over here for the last 5 years, we knew what was coming. That is the difference in being informed of what is really going on at the table and left in complete darkness, a huge difference. You don't hear one person from the membership here screaming "release us" or "take a strike vote" or "work stoppage" or anything like that. Only uninformed and people out of the know are saying crap like that.
If your union gets you guys a contract before Sept 2018 I would be shocked, happy too, but shocked. And if they do get you guys and "industry leading contract" at time you all settle I will come on here and congratulate them personally, but I just don't see that happening, at least not "industry leading".

 

[Kev3188]

You'd be correct if the unions worked in conjuction with each other, which they don't. As time goes by they become more splintered while those we fight consolidate.

We can ignore the realities of what we face and oppose the messenger but if we don't adapt to the changes around us then we will surely continue to be picked off. We just seem to argue and point fingers at each rather than acknowledge and learn about the changes.

If we want to blame each other and not adjust to our surroundings, then so be it. When we lose the battles it won't be because we didn't know, it will be because we didn't adjust.

There you go again.

The problem isn’t that we won’t adjust, it’s that we’ve already adjusted too much.

Capital moves the goal posts, and we just go along with it. It’s happened so often and for so long that it’s just seen as the norm. Let’s change that.