JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[WeAAsles]

That's because our NC is not just laying down and accepting all ask from the company. (not saying your is now) but they have in the past big time. Until they show something different we can only expect the same that we have seen for well over 30 years.
BTW: you guys are not done, your post indicates that you will be done soon. I will have to disagree, I would be willing to bet the membership tells this NC to get back to the table and nego. an "industry leading contract" as promised by the TWU, the IAM as well as the company man Parker himself. At least our union and NC is addressing everything the membership wants and asked for. Just FYI. Our real nego's did not start until Aug of 2016 when the company started nego in good faith, somewhat. They stalled the 5 years to get what GK said and wanted a 5 year pay freeze. But, the membership said they will have to make up for that 5 year pay freeze when it comes time. You can believe whatever you want to believe, but our good faith nego's just started last year in Aug. Why do you think it's been so quiet over here for the last 5 years, we knew what was coming. That is the difference in being informed of what is really going on at the table and left in complete darkness, a huge difference. You don't hear one person from the membership here screaming "release us" or "take a strike vote" or "work stoppage" or anything like that. Only uninformed and people out of the know are saying crap like that.
If your union gets you guys a contract before Sept 2018 I would be shocked, happy too, but shocked. And if they do get you guys and "industry leading contract" at time you all settle I will come on here and congratulate them personally, but I just don't see that happening, at least not "industry leading".

LMFAO so now you’ve only been in Negotiations since last August? WTF?

You also just said the NMB has you on ice again because nothing is moving. You said you expect another year to pass by with no results.

Another year makes 6 years for you. NO NOT last August, lol.

 

[NYer]

There you go again.

The problem isn’t that we won’t adjust, it’s that we’ve already adjusted too much.

Capital moves the goal posts, and we just go along with it. It’s happened so often and for so long that it’s just seen as the norm. Let’s change that.

We haven't adjusted at all.

 

[Kev3188]

Please tell me this was sarcasm and I missed it.

 

[bob@las-AA]

The more we separate ourselves the more we collectively lose.

How so? Let's say the big 4 had just one common union on site, one contract and one local respectively for each city regardless of the airline. What would we gain? Nothing! because without having something to compare wages and benefits to, negotiations would be quick, but the gains would be miniscule, we just got a big fat pay increase because of another airline that wasn't part of any collective hive. Having all airlines labor groups under one union and under one contract same pay and benefits, same everything, would be the kiss of death for any meaningful gains period.

 

[Kev3188]

That “big fat raise” at DL happened for two reasons:

First, they knew it would be an effective way to slow representation efforts.

Second, they recognized that other carriers would be forced to match it, but with generally more senior (and all benefitted) employers, their costs would rise much faster/further than DL’s would. Those rates would also be codified in contracts, whereas DL’s are not.

 

[737823]

That “big fat raise” at DL happened for two reasons:

First, they knew it would be an effective way to slow representation efforts.

Second, they recognized that other carriers would be forced to match it, but with generally more senior (and all benefitted) employers, their costs would rise much faster/further than DL’s would. Those rates would also be codified in contracts, whereas DL’s are not.

Amazing how you can be so bitter nearly a decade into your career at DL, after which you’ve received a huge financial windfall, improved job security and work for a well run, well capitalized entity that is the envy of the airline industry yet you still manage to remain bitter.

The fleet, Network, capital structure and career expectations for the PMNW side were so far below and inferior that of PMDL, you all effectively rode on the coat tails of MB and should NOT have gotten full DOH.

Josh

 

[NYer]

How so? Let's say the big 4 had just one common union on site, one contract and one local respectively for each city regardless of the airline. What would we gain? Nothing! because without having something to compare wages and benefits to, negotiations would be quick, but the gains would be miniscule, we just got a big fat pay increase because of another airline that wasn't part of any collective hive. Having all airlines labor groups under one union and under one contract same pay and benefits, same everything, would be the kiss of death for any meaningful gains period.

Unions can maintain their independence but we would collectively be better equipped to battle the airlines in contract negotiations by being able to prioritize out wants throughout all work groups at all airlines.

The airlines, for decades, have aimed to get what another airline was able to extract from their workers. I remember being in JFK in the early 90's and noticed from day to the next how Delta eliminated their cabin workers and made them a vendor supplied workforce. That cause other airlines to seek the same with their workgroups because of them getting to maintain the same Labor expenses.

Today, most of us compare what other airline workers get paid and want the same, plus more. The airlines do the same thing but on the opposite end of the scale.

Knowing that, we haven't modified our approach towards negotiations. Aside from that, we haven't pooled our unions to collectively stand on something and show the industry that none of the unions plan to give in on outsourcing, for example. Rather one group gets picked off, usually the weakest because their airline may be in a precarious financial state, and eventually the other groups are asked for the same.

We just argue about AMFA v TWU, Association v TWU, Association v IAM, TWU v IAM but the airlines seem to work together while we fight each other.

 

[WeAAsles]

How so? Let's say the big 4 had just one common union on site, one contract and one local respectively for each city regardless of the airline. What would we gain? Nothing! because without having something to compare wages and benefits to, negotiations would be quick, but the gains would be miniscule, we just got a big fat pay increase because of another airline that wasn't part of any collective hive. Having all airlines labor groups under one union and under one contract same pay and benefits, same everything, would be the kiss of death for any meaningful gains period.

Actually our raises were based off the UAL increases at that moment.

1% over $29.87.

 

[WeAAsles]

Amazing how you can be so bitter nearly a decade into your career at DL, after which you’ve received a huge financial windfall, improved job security and work for a well run, well capitalized entity that is the envy of the airline industry yet you still manage to remain bitter.

The fleet, Network, capital structure and career expectations for the PMNW side were so far below and inferior that of PMDL, you all effectively rode on the coat tails of MB and should NOT have gotten full DOH.

Josh

Why do so many want to identify someone stating facts with a perceived emotional state?

And why do you also write such weird oddball comments? Is it just for personal kicks or are you slightly loopy?

 

[B737 driver]

That “big fat raise” at DL happened for two reasons:

First, they knew it would be an effective way to slow representation efforts.

Second, they recognized that other carriers would be forced to match it, but with generally more senior (and all benefitted) employers, their costs would rise much faster/further than DL’s would. Those rates would also be codified in contracts, whereas DL’s are not.

Delta has another advantage they can take away at any time, except the pilots and dispatchers.

 

[Kev3188]

Exactly. I noted that in the last sentence of my post.

 

[WeAAsles]

Exactly. I noted that in the last sentence of my post.

Correct. They can fluctuate their labor expenses through multiple means. Such as raising rates on your Medical and excluding certain procedures and medicines from being covered, modifying your Profit Sharing either up or down (us too currently), raising the percentage of Ready Reserve numbers, lowering the percentage of benefitted employees and worse of all, transitioning higher cost employees out the door at will.

Employment Contracts create static expenses for the Company and security for the employees who are under them.

 

[Kev3188]

No doubt.

I'm just noting that with other carriers having now (more or less) matched our rates, there's nothing stopping DL from dropping ours to undercut AA, UA, etc.

 

[robbedagain]

Sorry bout leaving JB out Josh but since you bash AA and LUS (though the latter is no longer in existence) fly DL UA SW or JB But I also find it interesting that a financials numbers guy you are has access to what an AA employee would somethings fishy there

 

[WeAAsles]

No doubt.

I'm just noting that with other carriers having now (more or less) matched our rates, there's nothing stopping DL from dropping ours to undercut AA, UA, etc.

I don’t think outside going through another Court run in the future they would go after your wages directly?

It’s like Hagen Daz ice cream. It used to be $4.99 (That .99 scam on everything) for a pint. Well one day I noticed it was no longer a pint but now down to 14 Ounces instead. (That bag of Potato Chips has practically settled into nonexistence)

Corporations are well aware that people don’t take the time to read the fine print and that’s exactly where they get you.