JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[NYer]

I agree with your thoughts here. As I have said from the get go, when T/A day is here and all the changes are finally revealed to the members it will get ugly. They have been hiding too much from the members with all these drastic differences in these two contracts. I will just sit back with my popcorn and watch the show that this unprofessional and totally divided asso. is running. NY'er I mean no disrespect but this crap is beyond sad it is completely pathetic. You guys would not be in this boat if they simply would have had a vote between the two unions instead of forcing this pathetic asso down your throats.

I may be in the minority, but I think a representational vote would have made things worse.

The TWU side believes they would have won a vote because they are the larger group, but that is not a given. If they did win a vote, however, I don't think the IAM would just quietly slide away. They would fight for their medical and pension, and we'd be in a contract negotiation and at the same time, a card drive.

Also, the Company would be trying to get as much IAM language as they could, and this process would be much longer than it is now because there would be less chance in reaching a compromise on any given item as there is when the two groups have a say.

 

[Albert]

I think Hasbro should make a 12 inch Tim Nelson plush Doll with a cord you pull and it says all of Tim’s favorite catchphrases.

“Asshats, Pimps, Union Bosses, Cindy Dates, The Stews, I’m for Democracy and I was never in Houston”

Make a great Christmas gift for the Grandkids.

Actually the time spent in Houston was his finest hour, even though he had to pay for it.

 

[Albert]

I think Hasbro should make a 12 inch Tim Nelson plush Doll with a cord you pull and it says all of Tim’s favorite catchphrases.

“Asshats, Pimps, Union Bosses, Cindy Dates, The Stews, I’m for Democracy and I was never in Houston”

Make a great Christmas gift for the Grandkids.

What ever side Tim was organizing (majority or not) had a great chance of losing or if they did win being ousted sometime during the contract[/QUOTE

 

[Steve Walegir]

Can’t recall any open ended me too clauses in any contracts out there myself?

There were a few one time adjustments while waiting for UAL to finish their talks against the AFA that I know.

But I don’t know any others ongoing? Why do you think the APA was pissing and moaning so much about Delta Pilots.

Ok weez follow me on this one. In researching the APFA contract (only because it's easier to follow and understand) section 26 B refers to the medical options offered to the FA's, it's pretty cut and dry. Section 26 D 1 in covering retiree medical specifically mentions " Notwithstanding any other collective bargaining agreement provisions ". This phrase which basically says even if another group gets retiree medical you agree not to. But that same opening line doesn't appear in section 26 B, thus legally leaving open the possibility of open interpretation, especially if the medical options available to other work groups becomes less expensive. I normally don't speak legalize but the possibility due to the lack of the opening line from 26 D 1leaves open the possibility for the APFA to persure thr lower cost medical if it brcomes available to all association members. I akready know what you're going to counter with, but that's a pretty good argument i feel i csme uo with sandwiched in between on the ground gate changes

 

[bob@las-AA]

Good points, but I guess my question would be during the timeframe that the plan survived while other work groups at lus paid more, did any of those other unions have what is common place at AA and that is a Me Too clause in their contracts. That clause is everywhere now, but I honestly don't know the history of negioations at lus. While I agree why give it up now when billions are being made, management is hell bent on getting everyone on the same plan and to let us keep the lus plan what extra cost will it incur when applied to every other work group. Is that a reason to just throw our hands up and say ok you win we will give up the lus plan? No. But what in your opinion is the trade-off ? Remember this plan will effect all work groups. What will be the total additional cost? Are you willing to accept less in other areas, possibly outsourcing of work to pay for this company wide? We are only allotted a certain monetary amount in this negioation. How we split it up is the question. If we only are allotted $450 million(just an example) do you think we can squeeze $600 million out of management then for them to change everyone else at an additional?? Eventually it becomes unrealistic. I personally am willing to wait and fight for lus medical but if it costs me more in other areas ie a pay cut, outsourcing, vacation, retirement then I'd give up on the idea. Ted DiBiasie said "everyone's got a price", what's yours if this plan is given up

We no longer have a "me too provision".

 

[Steve Walegir]

We no longer have a "me too provision".
View attachment 12179

We don't have one now, but we are last in line for a jcba. No other groups are in negioations yet. Quite possibly with the pilots and FA's getting ready for round 2 there could be clauses included to protect for further gains by those groups. But that's to say we get something done prior to both those unions getting deals done, can't say I'm 100% sure on that one. We are last to get a contract for a reason, above the wing is much more important then below the wing, or at least that's the feeling I personally feel

 

[WeAAsles]

We don't have one now, but we are last in line for a jcba. No other groups are in negioations yet. Quite possibly with the pilots and FA's getting ready for round 2 there could be clauses included to protect for further gains by those groups. But that's to say we get something done prior to both those unions getting deals done, can't say I'm 100% sure on that one. We are last to get a contract for a reason, above the wing is much more important then below the wing, or at least that's the feeling I personally feel

Because APA and APFA agreed to interest based Arbitration/ Negotiations and TWU/ IAM did not.

CWA/ IBT had 70% of their Members wearing no pants and had no choice but to accept their deal.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok weez follow me on this one. In researching the APFA contract (only because it's easier to follow and understand) section 26 B refers to the medical options offered to the FA's, it's pretty cut and dry. Section 26 D 1 in covering retiree medical specifically mentions " Notwithstanding any other collective bargaining agreement provisions ". This phrase which basically says even if another group gets retiree medical you agree not to. But that same opening line doesn't appear in section 26 B, thus legally leaving open the possibility of open interpretation, especially if the medical options available to other work groups becomes less expensive. I normally don't speak legalize but the possibility due to the lack of the opening line from 26 D 1leaves open the possibility for the APFA to persure thr lower cost medical if it brcomes available to all association members. I akready know what you're going to counter with, but that's a pretty good argument i feel i csme uo with sandwiched in between on the ground gate changes

Does the language in the Contract specifically mention any other workgroup/s under agreement at AA?

From what you just wrote only it needs to be quite a bit more specific or it does not a decent grievance make.

 

[WeAAsles]

We don't have one now, but we are last in line for a jcba. No other groups are in negioations yet. Quite possibly with the pilots and FA's getting ready for round 2 there could be clauses included to protect for further gains by those groups. But that's to say we get something done prior to both those unions getting deals done, can't say I'm 100% sure on that one. We are last to get a contract for a reason, above the wing is much more important then below the wing, or at least that's the feeling I personally feel

That “Me too” was only good during the BK and for 6 Months after as I recall off the top of my head.

And it was put in as more of a feel good than anything else anyway since the 1113 of the BK code already satisfied if anyone gained a lower percentage of cuts over anyone else.

(The Pilots 3% lowering we also gained)

 

[WeAAsles]

Actually the time spent in Houston was his finest hour, even though he had to pay for it.

No that was on the Union Credit card remember. Never leave home without one.

 

[Albert]

No that was on the Union Credit card remember. Never leave home without one.

Rubbing it in eh" you're saying he got nookie on my union dues dime

 

[WeAAsles]

Rubbing it in eh" you're saying he got nookie on my union dues dime

That is the consistently unrefuted accusation against the little guy.

 

[Insatiable]

So we have swingers down in MIA?

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Rubbing it in eh" you're saying he got nookie on my union dues dime

Did he buy an expensive bottle of wine too?

 

[Insatiable]

Anyone know what hotel the NC and EC are staying at in DC while they hammer out our contract this weekend?