JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Steve Walegir]

Steve so Management is now “Hell Bent” on getting everyone into the cost expense of 21%? Or what people can’t get away from calling it “The AA Plans”

Hell Bent??????

We’ve been allotted (allowed) only a certain monetary value? Did Management say this somewhere also? Where do “WE” come up with this stuff?

Steve I think it was PJ Irish who said we all in TWU side have “Stockholm Syndrome”

I’m seriously beginning to think he’s 100% correct (Except with me)

Sweden is beautiful this time of year.
Yes I believe "Hell Bent" is accurate. Otherwise when AA decided to release their offer publicly they would have mentioned it, it's kinda a big thing.
A cap on the value of our contract? Yes most certainly. Even though some may feel we are, there is no way value wise we get a bigger contract then the pilots, we have a cap number. Believe me our contract won't cost AA $2billion yearly, just an example not literally.
I tried working absconded into this post but someone absconded with my line of thought

 

[Steve Walegir]

No one has Me Too clauses anymore in regards to medical.

Me Too clauses are specific to a certain item.

Please show me the Me Too clause in all the LAA CBAs.

Most people believe what others say yet don’t provide the specific language.

Me Too clauses are alive and well in AA contracts. You may not have dealt with them before but you will now. Every union contract will have them now. And it works out good for all unions. I will try to find the exact contract language for you. But it's the new way of negioations

 

[WeAAsles]

Sweden is beautiful this time of year.
Yes I believe "Hell Bent" is accurate. Otherwise when AA decided to release their offer publicly they would have mentioned it, it's kinda a big thing.
A cap on the value of our contract? Yes most certainly. Even though some may feel we are, there is no way value wise we get a bigger contract then the pilots, we have a cap number. Believe me our contract won't cost AA $2billion yearly, just an example not literally.
I tried working absconded into this post but someone absconded with my line of thought

Steve I need for you to provide for me ANY resource that exclaims an AA Company Representative informing the “need” “must have” “imperative” or “Hell Bent” transmission to us or Wall Street on that (Again) 21% Medical expenditure affirmation???????

Can you also (who said we are or should be compensated more than Pilots) provide for me where (Court Order?) AA has provided an accounting of precisely how much expense yearly they’re willing to provide to the MAX number?

If you know exactly what their walk away from the table point is then we need to get you in on those Executive Level talks Bro. Send Fa back to DFW since he doesn’t speak anyway.

 

[NYer]

You say you want the medical, you don’t say you support the IAM medical then you say they won’t keep it, you make no sense.

1. What money has the company invested to make you pay more for medical?

2. And how many times must it be posted this medical has survived over 15 years, while EVERY other employee group at LUS paid more?

It had survived three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies, a CBA abrogation, a JCBA and a Section 6 CBA.

Negotiated by many of the same company people who are in the room now.

It makes zero sense to give it up while the company makes billions.

1. Doesn't matter to me how they invest, I don't want to pay more for medical. No one does.
2. The point of the 15-year survival is not lost. It's just that the past doesn't guarantee the future.

You're are correct, it makes zero sense to voluntarily give it up, so that is why I understand if the IAM would want to prolong these negotiations in an attempt to keep it. If the TWU were in the same situation, I'm sure they'd do the same.

At some point, there will be a decision that will need to be made. If there is a sense of there is no other choice, then the negotiators will pivot to try and get as much value as possible in other areas in exchange for the medical. When that decision comes is up to the negotiators and the pivot will also be up to them.

I've maintained that if the Association was more transparent in the process and these challenges were explained, there would be more support to hold the line on the medical with the LUS side and other language issues on the LAA side.

I think the LAA side is more open to a resolution of the JCBA because they're not really aware of the changes that are coming. Once that makes it to the public forum, the shock of it will garner more support for this process to take the time to try and maximize a return.

 

[WeAAsles]

Me Too clauses are alive and well in AA contracts. You may not have dealt with them before but you will now. Every union contract will have them now. And it works out good for all unions. I will try to find the exact contract language for you. But it's the new way of negioations

Can’t recall any open ended me too clauses in any contracts out there myself?

There were a few one time adjustments while waiting for UAL to finish their talks against the AFA that I know.

But I don’t know any others ongoing? Why do you think the APA was pissing and moaning so much about Delta Pilots.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Me Too clauses are alive and well in AA contracts. You may not have dealt with them before but you will now. Every union contract will have them now. And it works out good for all unions. I will try to find the exact contract language for you. But it's the new way of negioations

Steve provide the specific language.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

NYer

I’m guessing you’re talking about the Swap Shift and OT changes that are a little more restrictive then you prefer? I believe as you call them CS you have adapted before and will adapt again when it’s finally taken out of Managements hands and becomes concrete language.

OT was a compromise and could have been worse for the TWU FT Member if compromise on the IAM language had not occurred.

I highly doubt there will be the uproar systemwide you propose but time will tell.

 

[WeAAsles]

NYer

I’m guessing you’re talking about the Swap Shift and OT changes that are a little more restrictive then you prefer? I believe as you call them CS you have adapted before and will adapt again when it’s finally taken out of Managements hands and becomes concrete language.

OT was a compromise and could have been worse for the TWU FT Member if compromise on the IAM language had not occurred.

I highly doubt there will be the uproar systemwide you propose but time will tell.

On this what I have heard floating through the wind. The Swap Shift change yes will make it slightly more difficult for a select group of individuals in the Company. Your Commuters and Low Timers who adjust the system to make up more suitable schedules for their personal needs.

The OT issue was a very acceptable compromise considering the two contracts were so vastly different from one another. Yes PT Members on the TWU side will now be able to enjoy a small measure of OT taken from the FT Member but it will still be based on whoever has the lowest hours of those who signed up. The OT pool will have more water in it though.

All of this was inevitable if you join two groups who do have some very different philosophical differences. This should have been anticipated by anyone who supported the Association. Sadly those people didn’t.

Anyway the Swap Shift (Language yea Baby) and OT changes will upset some but it won’t overrun the outcome of the JCBA vote with all the other anticipated gains.

 

[NYer]

NYer

I’m guessing you’re talking about the Swap Shift and OT changes that are a little more restrictive then you prefer? I believe as you call them CS you have adapted before and will adapt again when it’s finally taken out of Managements hands and becomes concrete language.

OT was a compromise and could have been worse for the TWU FT Member if compromise on the IAM language had not occurred.

I highly doubt there will be the uproar systemwide you propose but time will tell.

There most certainly will be an uproar. It may have been more muted if these issues were being discussed by the Association but as it stands the changes in language will be a surprise and there will be philosophical opposition.

I completely understand the need for compromise, but most will not want to see the issue in that frame as they believe their language is superior and should have won out. The education of the difference within each CBA was not done so when the changes are presented most will be in shock as they would not expect it. This is the reason many from the LAA side see these negotiations as dragging because it should just be about holidays, sick days and double time on OT, no other changes are needed. Again, that is the perception and there is no work being done to correct that miscalculation.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Most? Most? That IS the perception?

You can only know that after the outcome of the JCBA vote? Otherwise you’re only speculating and giving your own opinions.

We can all have opinions though.

 

[NYer]

Most? Most? That IS the perception?

You can only know that after the outcome of the JCBA vote? Otherwise you’re only speculating and giving your own opinions.

We can all have opinions though.

OK.

 

[WeAAsles]

Most? Most? That IS the perception?

You can only know that after the outcome of the JCBA vote? Otherwise you’re only speculating and giving your own opinions.

We can all have opinions though.

MIA could be an issue on the TWU side as it has a high concentration of Commuters, Part Timers and New Hires. But DFW doesn’t have that same problem and usually tends to propel the vote.

My “opinion” being that if it’s broken down MIA could swing either way yes or no?

I’d also suspect the Negotiators for both the Unions and the Company should have an overall grasp on what could or couldn’t bring down the JCBA’s? (Not a perfect science of course)

 

[Albert]

Due to politics, the IAM made the TWU the enemy and developed the fake narrative that the TWU wants to strip our insurance. It's an easy sell in CLT where there are no TWU peeps. But I'm in ORD and I work alongside 1300 TWU and they are all excited to try to get our insurance. So I know it is all fake news but CLT doesn't know that. The enemy is management, but until elections pass, the IAM leaders will not be caught dead walking a TWU negotiator in LUS Hub breakrooms in CLT. They know what they are doing and unfortunately, they made the TWU the enemy due to political gain. I take a monster hit politically every time I get on our leadership for not supporting the picketing of the Association. The enemy is management and it is absolutely ridiculous that management wanted our health care in the first place. That's offensive. But we were never going to keep our health care with a leadership that is singing kumbuya with management. Believe me they are otherwise they would be supporting all of us out there on the picket lines and at the rallies like we have been. SMFH.

I think if we make Tim "Grand Wizard Elected President For Life" We will be fine. His motto could be "an unused heavy bag in every studio apartment". He's got my vote and the Weez adores him

 

[WeAAsles]

I think if we make Tim "Grand Wizard Elected President For Life" We will be fine. His motto could be "an unused heavy bag in every studio apartment". He's got my vote and the Weez adores him

I think Hasbro should make a 12 inch Tim Nelson plush Doll with a cord you pull and it says all of Tim’s favorite catchphrases.

“Asshats, Pimps, Union Bosses, Cindy Dates, The Stews, I’m for Democracy and I was never in Houston”

Make a great Christmas gift for the Grandkids.

 

[swamt]

There most certainly will be an uproar. It may have been more muted if these issues were being discussed by the Association but as it stands the changes in language will be a surprise and there will be philosophical opposition.

I completely understand the need for compromise, but most will not want to see the issue in that frame as they believe their language is superior and should have won out. The education of the difference within each CBA was not done so when the changes are presented most will be in shock as they would not expect it. This is the reason many from the LAA side see these negotiations as dragging because it should just be about holidays, sick days and double time on OT, no other changes are needed. Again, that is the perception and there is no work being done to correct that miscalculation.

I agree with your thoughts here. As I have said from the get go, when T/A day is here and all the changes are finally revealed to the members it will get ugly. They have been hiding too much from the members with all these drastic differences in these two contracts. I will just sit back with my popcorn and watch the show that this unprofessional and totally divided asso. is running. NY'er I mean no disrespect but this crap is beyond sad it is completely pathetic. You guys would not be in this boat if they simply would have had a vote between the two unions instead of forcing this pathetic asso down your throats.