JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Just saying that we will be forced into a lesser, more expensive, crappier plan because everybody else on the property has it, is a BS argument and you know it. I never thought it was going to be an easy process, far from it, but you post as if you have already given up and are ready to call it quits and get what you can and screw over everybody else. As far as the last part, why don't you ask someone on the NC, they can explain far better than I ever could. Heck CB will probably give you his cell number so you can actually be informed.

CB asked him several times to contact him and he refused.

 

[NYer]

Prey tell, what changes?

Quite obviously, when merging two CBA's there will be changes and changes usually cause distress.

The proposals published by the Association in December 2015 spoke about adopting LUS language in the Shift Trade and Overtime articles. Any changes to those items whether you're from LAA or LUS will cause some anxiety, especially when they come as a surprise.

 

[WeAAsles]

It’s not the twu members are against us insurance . Doug and the boys are the ones who are wanting to take your insurance. And give you aa insurance. So stop blaming the twu members.

When did Doug and the boys say that they wanted to take away their insurance and give them the AA insurance? Where did you read or hear them say that?

Again there are no outside plans, only what we pay percentage wise for Medical care and what the Company pays. And that is differentiated into three different options.

 

[WeAAsles]

This Tom Talbert "newbie", is not on the LAA or LUS FSC list, who is this dude?

 

[NYer]

Just saying that we will be forced into a lesser, more expensive, crappier plan because everybody else on the property has it, is a BS argument and you know it. I never thought it was going to be an easy process, far from it, but you post as if you have already given up and are ready to call it quits and get what you can and screw over everybody else. As far as the last part, why don't you ask someone on the NC, they can explain far better than I ever could. Heck CB will probably give you his cell number so you can actually be informed.

Don't know how many times it needs to be said, I'd be in favor of this issue being fought tooth and nail for as long as the NC believes it is a viable fight. Everyone in LAA would want to have the LUS medical, don't that's the issue. The issue is that the Company has invested a lot of time and effort to get everyone else in the current LAA plans and during the BK they argued in court their need to do this was because it lowers their administrative costs. At this point, they have managed to get 4 out of the 5 union groups that have the same language, the same insurance options, and the same cost-sharing percentage. It doesn't seem like it this is the item where the airline will just cave at the 23rd hour.

To them, this isn't just about the current negotiations, it's also about the entire represented population. For instance, if they agree to a 15% cost share (a number plucked from thin air), rather the current 21% it would mean they would have to offer the other unions the same percentage. You may believe that is possible...I don't.

But fight on...by all means, fight on.

 

[NYer]

Then why didn't they ask for it during our last round of section 6 negotiations? The CWA-IBT already ratified a CBA with the horrible medical plans, so at that time only the IAM represented groups had a better medical plan, and we were in section 6. Why then NYer didn't Parker and company try and get that better medical from the IAM groups? We were the last frontier so to speak, they could have tried to get everybody on the same plan then. This company is making billions in profits, and according to our leader we "will never lose money again". So why should we settle for an inferior medical plan just to satisfy and placate other workgroups and the company? Why should we "gauge the other areas where we may be able to extract a little more than we otherwise may have. It is about maximizing the process to gain as much as possible"? What we you wanting us to give up for you to make gains? What are you willing to give up to make gains? I am not willing to give up anything, nor am I willing to ask you guys at LAA to give up anything just so we can get a deal done. I want us all to GAIN with this JCBA. Yes there will be some adjustment to the language changes, but by and large this JCBA should be a cost positive JCBA in all areas, not just in select areas, with the rest being cost neutral or cost negative towards the membership.

You're misunderstanding the conversation.

This isn't about placating any other represented group, I'm sure they'd be ecstatic if the LUS survived because then they would have better chance to get an alternate plan. All the other unions would be pulling for the LUS to survive, and that is precisely why there is less of a chance it will. What happens with the LUS will be held as a harbinger for future negotiations with other represented groups. Do you believe the airline would walk away from what they've been trying to do over the last six years?

EVERYONE wants to gain in a JCBA, that goal does not change and some on the LAA side would fight as long as necessary to achieve that. However, on the medical piece, in particular, it just doesn't seem to be the place where a gain will be made. There will be more compensation and better language elsewhere but the LUS medical may only survive in a status quo environment and if the IAM pursues that, I'd completely understand.

Why didn't they ask for it during your Section 6? Because you'd still be in those negotiations and the goal was to start the JCBA, which couldn't happen until the Section 6 process ended.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

You say you want the medical, you don’t say you support the IAM medical then you say they won’t keep it, you make no sense.

What money has the company invested to make you pay more for medical?

And how many times must it be posted this medical has survived over 15 years, while EVERY other employee group at LUS paid more?

It had survived three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies, a CBA abrogation, a JCBA and a Section 6 CBA.

Negotiated by many of the same company people who are in the room now.

It makes zero sense to give it up while the company makes billions.

 

[WeAAsles]

You say you want the medical, you don’t say you support the IAM medical then you say they won’t keep it, you make no sense.

What money has the company invested to make you pay more for medical?

And how many times must it be posted this medical has survived over 15 years, while EVERY other employee group at LUS paid more?

It had survived three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies, a CBA abrogation, a JCBA and a Section 6 CBA.

Negotiated by many of the same company people who are in the room now.

It makes zero sense to give it up while the company makes billions.

Have any of the TWU/IAM Negotiators come here and said that conversations on Medical expenditures for the 30,000 Association members have begun and those talks have/will be contentious and confrontational?

Has either Parker or Isom or any other Company Representatives for that matter made any public comments on Medical expenditure talks for the Association Negotiations?

Would there be a reasonable explanation for all employees of American Airlines to pay 21% of the cost if American Airlines is Self Insured and we are not in any outside plans where more participants can lead to lower costs?

If not would TWU/IAM Association members be better off going with a Multi Employer plan outside of what AA is offering or would AA be better off being contractually obligated to join with other Companies to lower overall Medical costs?

Reading many of the conversations on this page only convinces me that we/some have very “little” understanding of the issue and would probably be far better off letting those who have a command of it handle the Negotiations with AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Does anyone find this bit of reading interesting? Not to mention I believe this man Tom Regan is a part of our Negotiations for Medical Expenses.

 

[Steve Walegir]

You say you want the medical, you don’t say you support the IAM medical then you say they won’t keep it, you make no sense.

What money has the company invested to make you pay more for medical?

And how many times must it be posted this medical has survived over 15 years, while EVERY other employee group at LUS paid more?

It had survived three rounds of concessions in two bankruptcies, a CBA abrogation, a JCBA and a Section 6 CBA.

Negotiated by many of the same company people who are in the room now.

It makes zero sense to give it up while the company makes billions.

Good points, but I guess my question would be during the timeframe that the plan survived while other work groups at lus paid more, did any of those other unions have what is common place at AA and that is a Me Too clause in their contracts. That clause is everywhere now, but I honestly don't know the history of negioations at lus. While I agree why give it up now when billions are being made, management is hell bent on getting everyone on the same plan and to let us keep the lus plan what extra cost will it incur when applied to every other work group. Is that a reason to just throw our hands up and say ok you win we will give up the lus plan? No. But what in your opinion is the trade-off ? Remember this plan will effect all work groups. What will be the total additional cost? Are you willing to accept less in other areas, possibly outsourcing of work to pay for this company wide? We are only allotted a certain monetary amount in this negioation. How we split it up is the question. If we only are allotted $450 million(just an example) do you think we can squeeze $600 million out of management then for them to change everyone else at an additional?? Eventually it becomes unrealistic. I personally am willing to wait and fight for lus medical but if it costs me more in other areas ie a pay cut, outsourcing, vacation, retirement then I'd give up on the idea. Ted DiBiasie said "everyone's got a price", what's yours if this plan is given up

 

[WeAAsles]

Good points, but I guess my question would be during the timeframe that the plan survived while other work groups at lus paid more, did any of those other unions have what is common place at AA and that is a Me Too clause in their contracts. That clause is everywhere now, but I honestly don't know the history of negioations at lus. While I agree why give it up now when billions are being made, management is hell bent on getting everyone on the same plan and to let us keep the lus plan what extra cost will it incur when applied to every other work group. Is that a reason to just throw our hands up and say ok you win we will give up the lus plan? No. But what in your opinion is the trade-off ? Remember this plan will effect all work groups. What will be the total additional cost? Are you willing to accept less in other areas, possibly outsourcing of work to pay for this company wide? We are only allotted a certain monetary amount in this negioation. How we split it up is the question. If we only are allotted $450 million(just an example) do you think we can squeeze $600 million out of management then for them to change everyone else at an additional?? Eventually it becomes unrealistic. I personally am willing to wait and fight for lus medical but if it costs me more in other areas ie a pay cut, outsourcing, vacation, retirement then I'd give up on the idea. Ted DiBiasie said "everyone's got a price", what's yours if this plan is given up

Steve so Management is now “Hell Bent” on getting everyone into the cost expense of 21%? Or what people can’t get away from calling it “The AA Plans”

Hell Bent??????

We’ve been allotted (allowed) only a certain monetary value? Did Management say this somewhere also? Where do “WE” come up with this stuff?

Steve I think it was PJ Irish who said we all in TWU side have “Stockholm Syndrome”

I’m seriously beginning to think he’s 100% correct (Except with me)

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

Tom Regan is an IAM GLR and is second in command in both Fleet and Maintenance negotiations just under Sito Pantoja.

 

[Tom Talbert 1888]

No one has Me Too clauses anymore in regards to medical.

Me Too clauses are specific to a certain item.

Please show me the Me Too clause in all the LAA CBAs.

Most people believe what others say yet don’t provide the specific language.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tom Regan is an IAM GLR and is second in command in both Fleet and Maintenance negotiations just under Sito Pantoja.

And his specialty as I understand it is finding better, more affordable Medical plans that save both the Membership and the Company Money.

In the case of LUS the likelihood being that a better alternative was presented to Management in the US Bankruptcy that was cheaper (Satisfying the Court need for givebacks) and that alternative was either implemented or matched by US Management at that time.

Although seriously our LAA (Medical Plans) overall (By Comparison to the US Average) are very good there may be better out there in the weeds that can either be gained or matched by the New AA if they haven’t yet discovered that cost savings.

 

[WeAAsles]

No one has Me Too clauses anymore in regards to medical.

Me Too clauses are specific to a certain item.

Please show me the Me Too clause in all the LAA CBAs.

Most people believe what others say yet don’t provide the specific language.

“”””“Most people believe what others say yet don’t provide the specific language“””””””