JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[NYer]

I see both sides here and this does not appear to be cut and dried for either side. At the very least, I think the TWU and IAM can say they will attempt to hold separate section 6 talks. Even if the Association has to negotiate, I think Weez is right and they don't have to negotiate for a JCBA for one group. As Watcher said UA had to negotiate different contracts with the same union the way I read it.

The association should use this as leverage if they can. They should not make it easier if we are not being offered a fair contract.

Any chance we will see presidents or negotiators at the eanrings meeting later this month? I think the company should see a united front about the impasse? What do you think?

When the merger happened, the IAM had been in negotiations and that process needed to be closed before a JCBA could be negotiated. If the IAM at LUS didn't ratify to the bridge agreement we could be sitting on the sidelines waiting for that process to end before being able to start a new negotiation.

As it stands, the IAM did get an agreement and since both parties had a ratified CBA the JCBA negotiations started.

Moving forward, as determined by NMB, and using their words from the Association certification..."TWU/IAM Association as the certified representative and the TWU’s and IAM’s individual certifications are terminated."

 

[WeAAsles]

Why are you able to attend TWU meetings since they aren’t your certified representatives?

Because he has a name tag.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

WeAA. I try not to entertain them . but esp josh needs facts bec his anti union anti select airline bs he spews gets mighty old fast. As far as Tim he says this and that but reality has proven otherwise

Robbed, posters' like them will NEVER respond to "facts", reality, or even the truth... that's NOT what they are about.
They are about disinformation, skewed statistics, and outright falsehoods! They are about negatively impacting our solidarity...
It's what they f -ing do!
>SPIT<

 

[WeAAsles]

When the merger happened, the IAM had been in negotiations and that process needed to be closed before a JCBA could be negotiated. If the IAM at LUS didn't ratify to the bridge agreement we could be sitting on the sidelines waiting for that process to end before being able to start a new negotiation.

As it stands, the IAM did get an agreement and since both parties had a ratified CBA the JCBA negotiations started.

Moving forward, as determined by NMB, and using their words from the Association certification..."TWU/IAM Association as the certified representative and the TWU’s and IAM’s individual certifications are terminated."

Still does NOT satisfy the question what forces the process of JCBA talks to continue?

Even TN to his credit stated that the Association (The ghost entity) would need to file separate Section 6 petitions for all the groups who’s contracts were amendable.

 

[NYer]

NYer the TWU did not extinguish its certification to represent me fully. Currently I’m still represented by the TWU. My dues check off is given to my TWU Local 568 and as a matter of fact my TWU Local President was just added to the TWU side of the Association Negotiating Committee team.

And to quote what you wrote ”The Association is certified by the NMB as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members at the New American“

That would be TWU and IAM members combined as even TN has pointed out the Association is really a non entity. It’s essentially ethereal. A paper mache figure.

For people that espouse to know so much there seems to be little reading done.

The NMB certification was for bargaining, or contract negotiations, and they give that designation to the Association. For contract negotiations, the TWU and IAM individual classification as the bargaining agents for the new American has been terminated.

The Association documents clearly separates day to day representation to the unions at a specific location and bargaining to the three Association entities (Fleet, Maintenance & Stores)

 

[WeAAsles]

For people that espouse to know so much there seems to be little reading done.

The NMB certification was for bargaining, or contract negotiations, and they give that designation to the Association. For contract negotiations, the TWU and IAM individual classification as the bargaining agents for the new American has been terminated.

The Association documents clearly separates day to day representation to the unions at a specific location and bargaining to the three Association entities (Fleet, Maintenance & Stores)

I think you’ve noticed that I’m fine with agreeing that it would be the TWU/IAM (ghost) Association that would need to trigger all of those separate Section 6 talks.

My assumption then for something like that the letters would need to be co-signed by both John Samuelsen and Robert Martinez Jr to make it legally binding. Or maybe Alex and Sito would be fine?

 

[The Watcher]

The IAM Constitution prohibits dual unionism.

 

[gulfcoast1]

When the merger happened, the IAM had been in negotiations and that process needed to be closed before a JCBA could be negotiated. If the IAM at LUS didn't ratify to the bridge agreement we could be sitting on the sidelines waiting for that process to end before being able to start a new negotiation.

As it stands, the IAM did get an agreement and since both parties had a ratified CBA the JCBA negotiations started.

Moving forward, as determined by NMB, and using their words from the Association certification..."TWU/IAM Association as the certified representative and the TWU’s and IAM’s individual certifications are terminated."

OK I get that the Association negotiates for both but does that one one JCBA or as may have happened with UA can they say hey Doug since you won't offer one good JCBA we are going to try to negotiate IAM and TWU contracts until we can get a good JCBA? I don't think LUS management wants to relive LUS East and West again.

Also, any chance for a show of solidarity at the televised earnings meeting with more than just DFW folks?

 

[WeAAsles]

The IAM Constitution prohibits dual unionism.

Remember for Negotiations there is no IAM so technically there is no Constitution to be violated.

Same argument early on for the TWU Constitution.

 

[NYer]

Answer the questions?

Why no representatives, local meetings, dues collection?

That's not the Association's purpose.

The purpose of the Association is for collective bargaining as certified by the NMB, who terminated the IAM and TWU certification for bargaining at the New American.

The Association agreement also spells out the manner in which day to day representation would occur.

 

[WeAAsles]

OK I get that the Association negotiates for both but does that one one JCBA or as may have happened with UA can they say hey Doug since you won't offer one good JCBA we are going to try to negotiate IAM and TWU contracts until we can get a good JCBA? I don't think LUS management wants to relive LUS East and West again.

Also, any chance for a show of solidarity at the televised earnings meeting with more than just DFW folks?

gulfcoast that’s what we’re basically trying to establish here. The debate being two individuals (3 if we add Tim) essentially believe that separate Section 6 Negotiations can be initiated by either the (ghost) Association or the Associations respective representatives. And one individual believes the (ghost) Association is Legally required to continue on with JCBA talks?

Playing armchair Perry Mason’s is fun.

 

[NYer]

Why are you able to attend TWU meetings since they aren’t your certified representatives?

Because the Association agreement designates who will service the Members of the TWU and the IAM and in which stations.

 

[NYer]

Why is the TWU and the IAM handling grievances and etc, if they aren’t the certified representatives?

Again, the Association agreement determined how that would be handled.

 

[NYer]

I think you’ve noticed that I’m fine with agreeing that it would be the TWU/IAM (ghost) Association that would need to trigger all of those separate Section 6 talks.

My assumption then for something like that the letters would need to be co-signed by both John Samuelsen and Robert Martinez Jr to make it legally binding. Or maybe Alex and Sito would be fine?

If it goes to Mediation. They can have Fleet, Maintenance and Stores on three separate tracks and not stay together as they're trying to do now.

 

[WeAAsles]

Because the Association agreement designates who will service the Members of the TWU and the IAM and in which stations.

So would you agree then that the Association would also be required to service and negotiate for the separate contracts that we work under today if those contracts reached their amendable date?

Would it be the responsibility of the Association to file those separate Section 6’s and at the same time continue on with by that time obviously fruitless JCBA talks?