JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[NYer]

Ok no problem. I can agree with you that it is the TWU/IAM Employee Association who is our collective bargaining agent.

What I’m still asking is what Legal requirement does that Association have to negotiate “Joint” collective agreements with the Airline when there were separate agreements in place that then became amendable through intervening years?

Isn’t there a legal requirement or duty to be performed in regards to those contracts to now begin the Section 6 process for each of them separately?

Again there are no JCBA’s in place is what’s trying to be conveyed to you.

Really?

The Association is the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and the IAM members

The NMB has certified American as a Single Carrier, therefore US Airways doesn't exist to negotiate with.

There is one negotiating agent and one carrier.

There is one Fleet group, one Maintenance group and one Stores group each represented by the Association to negotiate with a Single Carrier, American.

 

[The Watcher]

There isn’t.

PMCO and PMUA both flight attendants were both IBT the new UA couldn’t force them into JCBAs, they had separate Section 6 negotiations then into JCBA.

Same for mechanics at the New UA.

And both already had SCS declared.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Oh and I don’t think either side could be accused in Court of not bargaining in good faith for JCBA’s for the collective.

Both sides IMO have more than adequately satisfied any Legal accusations that could be hurled against them.

In you legal opinion, of course.

 

[WeAAsles]

Really?

The Association is the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and the IAM members

The NMB has certified American as a Single Carrier, therefore US Airways doesn't exist to negotiate with.

There is one negotiating agent and one carrier.

There is one Fleet group, one Maintenance group and one Stores group each represented by the Association to negotiate with a Single Carrier, American.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Ok what are you talking about here? American Airlines (In name only) through the merger inherited both the workforce’s and the CBA’s of the former named Legacy US. (Actually LUS Management inherited us and our CBA’s)

If that’s not the case then explain to me why currently the IAM groups have ongoing Contracts that AA Management has to comply with?

Again this shouldn’t be difficult. Show me in Legal language that any Union has to negotiate JCBA’s? They do it because ordinarily It ultimately turns out to benefit all concerned.

And despite the fact that the Company negotiated some synergies for wages we still are in Fleet and Maintenance two separate groups, not one.

 

[WeAAsles]

In you legal opinion, of course.

True but negotiating in good faith has a very small litmus test that needs to be passed. So I think I can say with pretty good certainty that all parties would pass that test.

Even without having passed the Bar exam yet.

 

[NYer]

If that’s not the case then explain to me why currently the IAM groups have ongoing Contracts that AA Management has to comply with?

Again this shouldn’t be difficult. Show me in Legal language that any Union has to negotiate JCBA’s? They do it because ordinarily It ultimately turns out to benefit all concerned.

The NMB determines the bargaining agent for each airline.

American has been determined to be a Single Carrier.

The Fleet Association has been certified as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM represented members at the NMB single carrier certified New American.

The certification for the TWU to bargaining has been canceled. The certification for the IAM to bargain has also been canceled. They don't have the legal authority to bargain separately.

The Association can only bargain with the new single carrier therefore separate negotiations are impossible.

You can believe what you wish, but that's the way it is.

 

[The Watcher]

Do you not read and understand past case history?

The Association is a paper only entity.

There are no association representatives except Sito and Alex.

Are Each negotiator an Association representative?

Nope

Either IAM or TWU.

Do you or anyone else have an Association book number or Membership Card?

Are their monthly business meetings?

 

[WeAAsles]

You can believe what you wish, but that's the way it is.

It’s not about believing what I wish it’s about actually going with verifiable tangible evidence that you are correct in what you are alluding to which is that the Association must now bargain only for JCBA’s and essentially cannot trigger Section 6 Negotiations for any group separately off their amendable CBA’s.

If the Association does ask the NMB to trigger Section 6 ultimately maybe you could be correct and that would be denied?

But it could also be approved citing past precedent that other groups at other Airlines have needed to forego JCBA talks to initiate a standalone process as each CBA came up to its date?

You can always seek clarity higher up on this issue if it makes you more comfortable? But so far Watcher has been the only one to provide proof that separate talks could be the likelihood and even Tim Nelson mentioned that as well.

 

[NYer]

Do you not read and understand past case history?

The Association is a paper only entity.

There are no association representatives except Sito and Alex.

Are Each negotiator an Association representative?

Nope

Either IAM or TWU.

Do you or anyone else have an Association book number or Membership Card?

Are their monthly business meetings?

The Association is certified by the NMB as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members at the New American.

That simple.

 

[NYer]

It’s not about believing what I wish it’s about actually going with verifiable tangible evidence that you are correct in what you are alluding to which is that the Association must now bargain only for JCBA’s and essentially cannot trigger Section 6 Negotiations for any group separately off their amendable CBA’s.

If the Association does ask the NMB to trigger Section 6 ultimately maybe you could be correct and that would be denied?

But it could also be approved citing past precedent that other groups at other Airlines have needed to forego JCBA talks to initiate a standalone process as each CBA came up to its date?

You can always seek clarity higher up on this issue if it makes you more comfortable? But so far Watcher has been the only one to provide proof that separate talks could be the likelihood and even Tim Nelson mentioned that as well.

Proof?

Hardly.

 

[gulfcoast1]

The NMB determines the bargaining agent for each airline.

American has been determined to be a Single Carrier.

The Fleet Association has been certified as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM represented members at the NMB single carrier certified New American.

The certification for the TWU to bargaining has been canceled. The certification for the IAM to bargain has also been canceled. They don't have the legal authority to bargain separately.

The Association can only bargain with the new single carrier therefore separate negotiations are impossible.

You can believe what you wish, but that's the way it is.

I see both sides here and this does not appear to be cut and dried for either side. At the very least, I think the TWU and IAM can say they will attempt to hold separate section 6 talks. I don't think the company would even want to think about that possibility and that could cause them to move in our direction. Even if the Association has to negotiate, I think Weez is right and they don't have to negotiate for a JCBA for one group. As Watcher said UA had to negotiate different contracts with the same union the way I read it. Can they not say fine we will negotiate separate contracts for the IAM and TWU. We have one Association representing two groups with two contracts now right?

The association should use this as leverage if they can. They should not make it easier if we are not being offered a fair contract.

Any chance we will see presidents or negotiators at the eanrings meeting later this month? I think the company should see a united front about the impasse? What do you think?

 

[The Watcher]

The Association is certified by the NMB as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members at the New American.

That simple.

Answer the questions?

Why no representatives, local meetings, dues collection?

 

[The Watcher]

Why are you able to attend TWU meetings since they aren’t your certified representatives?

 

[The Watcher]

Why is the TWU and the IAM handling grievances and etc, if they aren’t the certified representatives?

 

[WeAAsles]

The Association is certified by the NMB as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members at the New American.

That simple.

NYer the TWU did not extinguish its certification to represent me fully. Currently I’m still represented by the TWU. My dues check off is given to my TWU Local 568 and as a matter of fact my TWU Local President was just added to the TWU side of the Association Negotiating Committee team.

And to quote what you wrote ”The Association is certified by the NMB as the exclusive bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members at the New American“

That would be TWU and IAM members combined as even TN has pointed out the Association is really a non entity. It’s essentially ethereal. A paper mache figure.