JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

For the record.

No such thing as separate TWU & IAM Section 6, it would a joint negotiations headed by the Association.

Personally, I believe if it makes it to Mediation the NMB will put Maintenance and Fleet on separate tracks.

NYer the two contracts are both separate contracts. We do not and have never had a JCBA so Legally what power does any governing body have to force the two groups into JCBA talks?

Unions usually go into JCBA talks because ultimately it’s going to benefit the separate groups to have one single contract. But again can you show me where it’s a Legal requirement that they must?

 

[WeAAsles]

Initiation of Bargaining

The formal means of initiating bargaining under the RLA when there is a collective bargaining agreement in place is through a section 6 notice (RLA Section 156). See Section 6 Notices. When there is no collective bargaining agreement in place, e.g., subsequent to a first time RLA representation election, there is no RLA prescribed method for initiating bargaining; however, it is not uncommon for the moving party to follow the Section 6 format.

http://www.johnlivingood.com/rla-collective-bargaining.html

 

[The Watcher]

For the record.

No such thing as separate TWU & IAM Section 6, it would a joint negotiations headed by the Association.

Personally, I believe if it makes it to Mediation the NMB will put Maintenance and Fleet on separate tracks.

Wrong I’ve given you examples.

The Association doesn’t own the IAM/US CBA nor do they own the TWU/AA CBA.

I’ve already posted numerous examples

UA and CO Flight Attendants and Mechanics when Section 6 took place each had their own Section 6 and separate CBAs.

There are other examples too.

The Association has ZERO members, doesnt own any CBAs and doesn’t even collect dues.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wrong I’ve given you examples.

The Association doesn’t own the IAM/US CBA nor do they own the TWU/AA CBA.

I’ve already posted numerous examples

I also don’t believe that the NMB has the power to arbitrarily put the groups on separate tracks but if it does get to the point where Linda Pachula’s services could assist in the movement of the process she could “recommend” it?

If cooler heads do ultimately need to prevail they will IMO “suggest” that they continue on with JCBA talks leaving in place all the items that have already been agreed to by both the Association and the Company.

But I will still wait to see any Legal requirements to do so?

 

[NYer]

"The TWU/IAM Associations that were formed by TWU and IAM represent all of the employees in these crafts or classes on the merged system and the New American has not objected to the certification of the TWU/IAM Associations. Therefore, TWU’s and IAM’s certifications are extended to cover the merged crafts or classes with the respective TWU/IAM Association as the certified representative and the TWU’s and IAM’s individual certifications are terminated."

 

[The Watcher]

Why aren’t there Association Members?

Why doesn’t the Association collect dues?

Why hasn’t the IAM or the TWU expell their respective members and still collecting dues?

Why hasn’t their been new local, officer elections for a local or headquarters reps?

Why are there no Association employees and support staff or even an office?

 

[Tim Nelson]

NYer the two contracts are both separate contracts. We do not and have never had a JCBA so Legally what power does any governing body have to force the two groups into JCBA talks?

Unions usually go into JCBA talks because ultimately it’s going to benefit the separate groups to have one single contract. But again can you show me where it’s a Legal requirement that they must?

Listen you moron, the twu can not trigger section 6 and neith can the iam.
Neither is the cba. The Association.

Jcba are not section 6 talks. The association will have to trigger separate section 6 for each and every contract. The iam had to leave jcba talks and expedited talks after no deal, then had to trigger section 6 on each contract that was ammendable. This means the twu contract in september since i dont think the iam contract is up the same date. Wake up!

 

[NYer]

--"The Board finds that the TWU/IAM Mechanics Association is the certified representative of the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class at the New American..."

--"Board further finds that TWU/IAM Fleet Association is the certified representative of the Fleet Service Employees craft or class at the New American..."

--"Finally, the Board finds that the TWU/IAM Stores Association is the certified representative of the Stock and Stores Employee craft or class at the New American..."

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why aren’t there Association Members?

Why doesn’t the Association collect dues?

Why hasn’t the IAM or the TWU expell their respective members and still collecting dues?

Why hasn’t their been new local, officer elections for a local or headquarters reps?

Why are there no Association employees and support staff or even an office?

There are no members so there are no voting rights. Sorry.

 

[WeAAsles]

"The TWU/IAM Associations that were formed by TWU and IAM represent all of the employees in these crafts or classes on the merged system and the New American has not objected to the certification of the TWU/IAM Associations. Therefore, TWU’s and IAM’s certifications are extended to cover the merged crafts or classes with the respective TWU/IAM Association as the certified representative and the TWU’s and IAM’s individual certifications are terminated."

That is a point that I had thought about that the two Unions had extinguished their certificates for single entity collective bargaining. But I still don’t see legal requirements that state the Association then necessarily has to negotiate for Joint Contracts?

Why can they not negotiate the separate contracts even if it is ultimately counterproductive and could compel the Company into Court to try and force the Association to bargain for joint contracts?

 

[WeAAsles]

“”””””””””The association will have to trigger separate section 6 for each and every contract. The iam had to leave jcba talks and expedited talks after no deal, then had to trigger section 6 on each contract that was ammendable. This means the twu contract in september since i dont think the iam contract is up the same date.””””””””””

I’m sure both Unions Legal teams know full well how they’re going to need to handle this. And yes your Contracts are also amendable at the same time as ours. Your dates were changed when you accepted the raises.

You Kook.

 

[WeAAsles]

Company cannot force anyone into JCBA Negotiations, nothing in the RLA covering that.

AA does have the right to file two separate Section 6 notices 60 days to the respective amendable dates as do each individual union.

There is no exsisting Association single CBA for them to file a Section 6 notice.

From what I’ve heard this has already been discussed at higher levels of leadership.

It’s probably not that difficult anyway really. TWU guys will negotiate TWU contracts and IAM guys will negotiate IAM contracts. And they’ll just wear name tags that say TWU/IAM Association.

Hoo-rah.

 

[NYer]

That is a point that I had thought about that the two Unions had extinguished their certificates for single entity collective bargaining. But I still don’t see legal requirements that state the Association then necessarily has to negotiate for Joint Contracts?

Why can they not negotiate the separate contracts even if it is ultimately counterproductive and could compel the Company into Court to try and force the Association to bargain for joint contracts?

The Association is a negotiating entity for the new American. As far as the government is concerned US Airways no longer exists

Company cannot force anyone into JCBA Negotiations, nothing in the RLA covering that.

AA does have the right to file two separate Section 6 notices 60 days to the respective amendable dates as do each individual union.

There is no exsisting Association single CBA for them to file a Section 6 notice.

From what I’ve heard this has already been discussed at higher levels of leadership.

Does US Airways hold a flying certificate or has the NMB awarded a single carrier certificate to the new American?

The single carrier determination from April 2015 authorizes the Association as the bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members, that is the most important function of the Association

 

[WeAAsles]

The Association is a negotiating entity for the new American. As far as the government is concerned US Airways no longer exists


Does US Airways hold a flying certificate or has the NMB awarded a single carrier certificate to the new American?

The single carrier determination from April 2015 authorizes the Association as the bargaining agent for the TWU and IAM members, that is the most important function of the Association

View attachment 12640

Ok no problem. I can agree with you then that it is the TWU/IAM Employee Association who is our collective bargaining agent.

What I’m still asking is what Legal requirement does that Association have to negotiate “Joint” collective agreements with the Airline when there were separate agreements in place that then became amendable through intervening years?

Isn’t there a legal requirement or duty to be performed in regards to those contracts to now begin the Section 6 process for each of them separately?

Again there are no JCBA’s in place is what’s trying to be conveyed to you.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and I don’t think either side could be accused in Court of not bargaining in good faith for JCBA’s for the collective.

Both sides IMO have more than adequately satisfied any Legal accusations that could be hurled against them.