JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

The company is in better shape than its ever been,we have never been more secure.Do you go around daycare centers and tell kids there is no Santa?Very depressing indeed

I don’t know Al. On this one it’s Crema who’s telling us that Santa is real and Watcher frightening me that we’re Pompei and the Mountain is rumbling.

 

[The Watcher]

Just stating financial information.

You form you’re own conclusions.

 

[ALUS78]

I don’t know Al. On this one it’s Crema who’s telling us that Santa is real and Watcher frightening me that we’re Pompei and the Mountain is rumbling.

It was meant for Richard i mean Watcher sorry creme

 

[Tim Nelson]

I remember that well. Ira called it “monumental”, but fortunately the membership resoundingly rejected it thanks to your efforts.

Josh

Here is the sad reality. After the company tweaks their offer sometime soooonnnnnn, and only to the executive negotiating committee, that's going to be it and things will be 100% shut down for the next 3-5 years. The company is in great shape and is willing to accept collateral damage from disgruntled employees according to "Superfly" as the company saw no indication that it received any credit for the profit sharing, big raises, etc., as both unions leadership continued to foster to its membership that the company was the bad guy. So, even with a JCBA, the company fully realizes that it will be seen as the bad guy given the harsh bankruptcies that has fostered such a negative image, according to superfly. The company is preparing to move on to the other work groups which will have contracts due up soon and most likely shelve TWU/IAM talks until section 6 then restart everything all over but at a much slower pace. All of that according to superfly and should be taken as hearsay and entertainment value but I sorta believe it.

The offer is clearly not acceptable, imo, but the problem is that the IAM always talks really tough but then folds like a Big Tent Folding Chair after a couple years and takes less than what was originally offered. We have very stupid and dumb people negotiating for us. Sito had a GED but then got a makeshift diploma at the Labor college. His vocabulary is about 100 words, mostly F this and F That. A real dummy indeed. If he held out and kept what we have then good for him, but I don't make bets against history. I believe Superfly and the company pretty much got most everything it needed anyways with the cross utilization (Didn't NYer warn us about that coming back to haunt us?). But, from my perspective, why bother with a new JCBA since LUS pretty much has the best contract in the industry right now and would drop significantly with a new JCBA? Again, the problem is that that union always folds, once the company starts digging in on the dues, it flips like a pancake. When the company moves to announce the closure of a few TWU stations, and perhaps putting a few hundred PHL jobs up for bid, there will be nothing the union can do other than to hold its position (insert smart move here) or fold and hose all of us.

And even though our LUS health care will be toast without a JCBA in 2022 unless they postpone the Cadillac tax one more time, we still have solid scope, which to me is the Holy Grail. Take a few years in negotiations and do it right. Sito needs to put his big boy pants on and keep them on for years to come, if that's what he has left.

And FWIW, Parker really did want to shut down talks after the last offer but that Johnson dude insisted on tweaking the offer a nudge prior to shutting down JCBA talks and proceeding to section 6......all according to Superfly. Take it for what it is worth but thus far Superfly been SPOT ON.

Time will tell.

 

[ALUS78]

I don’t know Al. On this one it’s Crema who’s telling us that Santa is real and Watcher frightening me that we’re Pompei and the Mountain is rumbling.

Weez my internet blacks out comes on again and Im trying to type while picking up bags.So if my posts seem wierd. Plus im pretty f@#ked up myself 7

 

[WeAAsles]

It was meant for Richard i mean Watcher sorry creme

Ok Al I just did a little research here on Medical plans in Broward short term. I put in that I was 62/ Non Smoker. $1000 Deductible, $5000 Max 80/20 Plan and the cost was in the $600 to $700 per month area.

Now if you’re ok with the risk and think you can handle the high Deductible plans you’re looking in the $200 to $300 per month arena.

And of course there’s always Belize. They’re main language is English.

 

[ALUS78]

Here is the sad reality. After the company tweaks their offer sometime soooonnnnnn, and only to the executive negotiating committee, that's going to be it and things will be 100% shut down for the next 3-5 years. The company is in great shape and is willing to accept collateral damage from disgruntled employees according to "Superfly" as the company saw no indication that it received any credit for the profit sharing, big raises, etc., as both unions leadership continued to foster to its membership that the company was the bad guy. So, even with a JCBA, the company fully realizes that it will be seen as the bad guy given the harsh bankruptcies that has fostered such a negative image, according to superfly. The company is preparing to move on to the other work groups which will have contracts due up soon and most likely shelve TWU/IAM talks until section 6 then restart everything all over but at a much slower pace. All of that according to superfly and should be taken as hearsay and entertainment value but I sorta believe it.

The offer is clearly not acceptable, imo, but the problem is that the IAM always talks really tough but then folds like a Big Tent Folding Chair after a couple years and takes less than what was originally offered. We have very stupid and dumb people negotiating for us. Sito had a GED but then got a makeshift diploma at the Labor college. His vocabulary is about 100 words, mostly F this and F That. A real dummy indeed. If he held out and kept what we have then good for him, but I don't make bets against history. I believe Superfly and the company pretty much got most everything it needed anyways with the cross utilization (Didn't NYer warn us about that coming back to haunt us?). But, from my perspective, why bother with a new JCBA since LUS pretty much has the best contract in the industry right now and would drop significantly with a new JCBA? Again, the problem is that that union always folds, once the company starts digging in on the dues, it flips like a pancake. When the company moves to announce the closure of a few TWU stations, and perhaps putting a few hundred PHL jobs up for bid, there will be nothing the union can do other than to hold its position (insert smart move here) or fold and hose all of us.

And even though our LUS health care will be toast without a JCBA in 2022 unless they postpone the Cadillac tax one more time, we still have solid scope, which to me is the Holy Grail. Take a few years in negotiations and do it right. Sito needs to put his big boy pants on and keep them on for years to come, if that's what he has left.

And FWIW, Parker really did want to shut down talks after the last offer but that Johnson dude insisted on tweaking the offer a nudge prior to shutting down JCBA talks and proceeding to section 6......all according to Superfly. Take it for what it is worth but thus far Superfly been SPOT ON.

Time will tell.

Tim what these AA guys dont realize is that the Us and HP pilot group never had a joint contract amd the company did fine

 

[B737 driver]

Here is the sad reality. After the company tweaks their offer sometime soooonnnnnn, and only to the executive negotiating committee, that's going to be it and things will be 100% shut down for the next 3-5 years. The company is in great shape and is willing to accept collateral damage from disgruntled employees according to "Superfly" as the company saw no indication that it received any credit for the profit sharing, big raises, etc., as both unions leadership continued to foster to its membership that the company was the bad guy. So, even with a JCBA, the company fully realizes that it will be seen as the bad guy given the harsh bankruptcies that has fostered such a negative image, according to superfly. The company is preparing to move on to the other work groups which will have contracts due up soon and most likely shelve TWU/IAM talks until section 6 then restart everything all over but at a much slower pace. All of that according to superfly and should be taken as hearsay and entertainment value but I sorta believe it.

The offer is clearly not acceptable, imo, but the problem is that the IAM always talks really tough but then folds like a Big Tent Folding Chair after a couple years and takes less than what was originally offered. We have very stupid and dumb people negotiating for us. Sito had a GED but then got a makeshift diploma at the Labor college. His vocabulary is about 100 words, mostly F this and F That. A real dummy indeed. If he held out and kept what we have then good for him, but I don't make bets against history. I believe Superfly and the company pretty much got most everything it needed anyways with the cross utilization (Didn't NYer warn us about that coming back to haunt us?). But, from my perspective, why bother with a new JCBA since LUS pretty much has the best contract in the industry right now and would drop significantly with a new JCBA? Again, the problem is that that union always folds, once the company starts digging in on the dues, it flips like a pancake. When the company moves to announce the closure of a few TWU stations, and perhaps putting a few hundred PHL jobs up for bid, there will be nothing the union can do other than to hold its position (insert smart move here) or fold and hose all of us.

And even though our LUS health care will be toast without a JCBA in 2022 unless they postpone the Cadillac tax one more time, we still have solid scope, which to me is the Holy Grail. Take a few years in negotiations and do it right. Sito needs to put his big boy pants on and keep them on for years to come, if that's what he has left.

And FWIW, Parker really did want to shut down talks after the last offer but that Johnson dude insisted on tweaking the offer a nudge prior to shutting down JCBA talks and proceeding to section 6......all according to Superfly. Take it for what it is worth but thus far Superfly been SPOT ON.

Time will tell.

Sounds like SWA, they wanted everyone to catch up to us, and had a five year pay freeze. This last negotiations was serious movement. Upper SWA management wants it done, so does the moderator, so hopefully we finally have a T/A to consider.

 

[WeAAsles]

Here is the sad reality. After the company tweaks their offer sometime soooonnnnnn, and only to the executive negotiating committee, that's going to be it and things will be 100% shut down for the next 3-5 years. The company is in great shape and is willing to accept collateral damage from disgruntled employees according to "Superfly" as the company saw no indication that it received any credit for the profit sharing, big raises, etc., as both unions leadership continued to foster to its membership that the company was the bad guy. So, even with a JCBA, the company fully realizes that it will be seen as the bad guy given the harsh bankruptcies that has fostered such a negative image, according to superfly. The company is preparing to move on to the other work groups which will have contracts due up soon and most likely shelve TWU/IAM talks until section 6 then restart everything all over but at a much slower pace. All of that according to superfly and should be taken as hearsay and entertainment value but I sorta believe it.

The offer is clearly not acceptable, imo, but the problem is that the IAM always talks really tough but then folds like a Big Tent Folding Chair after a couple years and takes less than what was originally offered. We have very stupid and dumb people negotiating for us. Sito had a GED but then got a makeshift diploma at the Labor college. His vocabulary is about 100 words, mostly F this and F That. A real dummy indeed. If he held out and kept what we have then good for him, but I don't make bets against history. I believe Superfly and the company pretty much got most everything it needed anyways with the cross utilization (Didn't NYer warn us about that coming back to haunt us?). But, from my perspective, why bother with a new JCBA since LUS pretty much has the best contract in the industry right now and would drop significantly with a new JCBA? Again, the problem is that that union always folds, once the company starts digging in on the dues, it flips like a pancake. When the company moves to announce the closure of a few TWU stations, and perhaps putting a few hundred PHL jobs up for bid, there will be nothing the union can do other than to hold its position (insert smart move here) or fold and hose all of us.

And even though our LUS health care will be toast without a JCBA in 2022 unless they postpone the Cadillac tax one more time, we still have solid scope, which to me is the Holy Grail. Take a few years in negotiations and do it right. Sito needs to put his big boy pants on and keep them on for years to come, if that's what he has left.

And FWIW, Parker really did want to shut down talks after the last offer but that Johnson dude insisted on tweaking the offer a nudge prior to shutting down JCBA talks and proceeding to section 6......all according to Superfly. Take it for what it is worth but thus far Superfly been SPOT ON.

Time will tell.

Is this what your Corporate Masters have sent you to convey to us Grima Wormtongue?

 

[ALUS78]

Ok Al I just did a little research here on Medical plans in Broward short term. I put in that I was 62/ Non Smoker. $1000 Deductible, $5000 Max 80/20 Plan and the cost was in the $600 to $700 per month area.

Now if you’re ok with the risk and think you can handle the high Deductible plans you’re looking in the $200 to $300 per month arena.

And of course there’s always Belize. They’re main language is English.

Well I smoke and have high blood pressure cholesterol and after last night I feel a slight burn when I pee

 

[The Watcher]

Call Bob and ask him where he gets his penicillin shots.

 

[WeAAsles]

Tim what these AA guys dont realize is that the Us and HP pilot group never had a joint contract amd the company did fine

And we’ll be just fine too continuing to have all of those Maintenance jobs, Facilities, Automotive, Deicing and not to mention LUS Catering.

Lots and lots and lots of jobs. Tons of jobs at AA.

 

[ALUS78]

And we’ll be just fine too continuing to have all of those Maintenance jobs, Facilities, Automotive, Deicing and not to mention LUS Catering.

Lots and lots and lots of jobs. Tons of jobs at AA.

Yup

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim what these AA guys dont realize is that the Us and HP pilot group never had a joint contract amd the company did fine

Weez is sending things right in the gutter. At United, the AFA took years and years and years after the UA/CO merger even though there was no cross utilization agreement. Unlike our HP/LUS Pilot situation which cost the company mightedly and may have even placed the seeds for this merger, the TWU/IAM gave up most of their leverage by agreeing to the cross utilization agreement that NYer claimed may come back to haunt us.

To be sure, I supported the Association, due to seniority that LUS all would have been hosed by these people like Weez. They cornholed TWA and tried to cornhole AirTran and would have cornholed us. So, the association served LUS well. Now that we have seniority locked in, it appears that this thing may part like the Red Sea, especially if the TWU can't hold out for 3-5 years. Make no mistake, if it goes to section 6, then it is most certainly 3-5 years.

And I also supported the cross utilization. While a massive concession, it was more than fair because it gave us a fair wage upfront and didn't subject us to these tedious talks.

But the reality that Weez is pushing is only as good as him standing with LUS for 3-5 years. My money is that weez isn't willing to make that commitment, neither the TWU. Nothing against weez since, to be sure, my perspective wouldn't be a LUS perspective if I wasn't LUS. But I am, so for us to turn down the "Take it or Leave it" that means standing with LUS for 3-5 years. Any buckle and it doesn't make any sense because a buckle would mean we actually would get less than what we are offered now. (Hint: where have we seen this before????) And therein lies the problem with Sito. Dude F's this and F's that and talks real big but once the company announces a closure of some stations and hits him in dues, he runs to the table faster than Hayes. Thus, I don't believe the TWU is willing to stand 5 years, and if that is true then serious pressure may cause a meltdown between the two unions. I mean what else can we do other than just say no? We can't strike. We will not be in mediation for at least 3 years, we have a current contract. We can picket, rally, stomp our feet but with all of the rallies in this nation, nobody really seems to care or listen anymore.

But the wise thing for the TWU is to stand with LUS for up to 5 years. That's the smart money. But the IAM has NEVER stood and flipped like a pancake after station closures. To be sure, TWU stations will close and there will be a cost to stand with the IAM. Mark my words. Always a sacrifice when standing. But we need to stand steadfast and persevere, even at the 5 year mark.

Go IAM!

 

[Jester]

Actually Unions probably have never been stronger in the Airline industry. They just need to coordinate more.

To be sure airline unions are in a much better negotiating position than 10-15 years ago, but I seriously question if they are stronger than ever before. It is a different era now than the days of the CAB setting fares with a guaranteed cost-plus profits. Not to mention, the legitimate strike threat which was exercised in decades past are now all but certain to be nullified by a court injunction or Presidential order.

Yes, the massive profits are available to fund generous contracts, but the political attitudes have changes on the national level towards organized labor and strikes which affect the entire transportation network.