JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[WeAAsles]

BTW on the LBO or “Last Best Offer”

Over the last few years I recall some Airline groups offering an LBO that was rejected and then they pushed something called a LBFO “Last Best Final Offer” So personally I’m not sure how much credibility I’m giving to any of these LBO’s anymore.

Next thing you know they’ll be a LBFWNKHO “Last Best Final We’re Not Kidding Here Offer”

 

[WeAAsles]

It only makes “sense” if the NC is afraid of the T/A being wildly unpopular or concessionary. The fact is, we’re in an age of unprecedented highs for our industry. That’s great for the workers, but definitely puts pressure on the NC, as it means there really is no palatable give-to-get available right now (nor should there be, IMO).

!

Again Kev I’m going to look at the totality of any agreement and see how it benefits me/us before I make the decision whether I’m going to pass or fail it.

Will there be pieces of it that I’m not crazy about because the two Unions needed to reconcile their philosophies and then get the Company to agree to what they came up with? Absolutely I’m sure.

One guy on this thread has been almost up in arms on the CS (Swap shift) and OT changes he’s heard about coming down the pipe. Do I like those changes personally, no. BUT again?

My personal baby that I want for the Stocking Stuffer is Penalty Hours (Shift Continuance) to be in dry ink. If it’s not in the eventual agreement well that would mean a “red mark” from me but it still doesn’t mean the entire JCBA gets that failing grade necessarily.

 

[Jester]

As rumors are still encouraged in Version 2.0, the word around the campfire was that the Association negotiators stormed out of the latest round over the Company's refusal to accept the IAM health insurance in the new JCBA. Ergo forget any contract in March or summer and Section 6 is on the horizon. Company may decide to play hardball with TWU's Cinderella clauses in some stations to be affected with a push for Section 6.

Assuming the rumor to be true, I suspect much of it to be political theater to either appease the IAM or to delay the process for the mechanics negations or press for a better deal using IAM insurance as a bargaining chip.

 

[cltrat]

Who ya got?



It only makes “sense” if the NC is afraid of the T/A being wildly unpopular or concessionary. The fact is, we’re in an age of unprecedented highs for our industry. That’s great for the workers, but definitely puts pressure on the NC, as it means there really is no palatable give-to-get available right now (nor should there be, IMO).



It’s nice to see you back!

Kev I’m a lifelong Tar Heel fan so that is where my heart is

 

[Deleted member 14439]

As rumors are still encouraged in Version 2.0, the word around the campfire was that the Association negotiators stormed out of the latest round over the Company's refusal to accept the IAM health insurance in the new JCBA. Ergo forget any contract in March or summer and Section 6 is on the horizon. Company may decide to play hardball with TWU's Cinderella clauses in some stations to be affected with a push for Section 6.

Assuming the rumor to be true, I suspect much of it to be political theater to either appease the IAM or to delay the process for the mechanics negations or press for a better deal using IAM insurance as a bargaining chip.

SMDH. LAA scope is going to take a big hit. LUS side will feel the pain losing their coveted healthcare. No one will be happy except the company.

 

[WeAAsles]

As rumors are still encouraged in Version 2.0, the word around the campfire was that the Association negotiators stormed out of the latest round over the Company's refusal to accept the IAM health insurance in the new JCBA. Ergo forget any contract in March or summer and Section 6 is on the horizon. Company may decide to play hardball with TWU's Cinderella clauses in some stations to be affected with a push for Section 6.

Assuming the rumor to be true, I suspect much of it to be political theater to either appease the IAM or to delay the process for the mechanics negations or press for a better deal using IAM insurance as a bargaining chip.

Nothing wrong with rumors but we have to pick them apart sometimes and try to interject a little common sense if possible into the rumor we’re hearing.

Right now all indications are that there was no place they’ve been that they could have “stormed out” from? And the comment “stormed out” always comes across to me as a very over dramatic statement if anyone uses it anyway.

Last we heard at least somewhat officially was that we were still waiting for the Company to respond to the proposals from the Association that were presented to them a few weeks back.

A small group of Fleet Negotiators went to DFW to tidy up the language and then the following week the Maintenance Negotiators went and did the same.

Anyway Jester if there was ever going to be any “storming out” for any reason I think it would have way more to do with chopping headcount and jobs (even through attrition) than it would for some rising Medical costs IMO.

“Alas poor Yurick I knew him well”

 

[The Watcher]

SMDH. LAA scope is going to take a big hit. LUS side will feel the pain losing their coveted healthcare. No one will be happy except the company.

The healthcare is percentages paid.

LAA pays 21% of the total cost.

The lowest LUS pays is 14% of the total cost.

So no one is losing their healthcare, the percentage of cost is the issue.

LUS IAM percentage costs survived three rounds of concessions in two separate chapter 11 bankruptcies, A JCBA with HP and a stand alone Section 6 CBA in 2014.

There is no reason why the percentage can’t stay the same or meet in the middle.

This percentage stayed the same for the IAM, while. ALPA, AFA, CWA/IBT and the TWU at US all paid higher premiums than the IAM.

It seems your taking enjoyment if the IAM members have to pay more, I hope I’m wrong.

I believe the scope will be blended and it should increase work, not lose it.

 

[WeAAsles]

SMDH. LAA scope is going to take a big hit. LUS side will feel the pain losing their coveted healthcare. No one will be happy except the company.

I don’t know if I really fly with the comment no one will be happy except the Company.

Even “IF” there was a hit on SCOPE as far as jobs which not to be mean might be more in Aircraft Maintenance due to newer planes it would only be through attrition. Again even if they agree to anything that shrinks heads that dramatically it would be over time. Or perhaps through a buyout as I believe eventually will be the case.

There are lots of other items even besides that which will make individuals quite happy IMO. Wages, Holliday’s, Vacation, Sick Bank, PTO, and Retirement improvements.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I don’t know if I really fly with the comment no one will be happy except the Company.

Even “IF” there was a hit on SCOPE as far as jobs which not to be mean might be more in Aircraft Maintenance due to newer planes it would only be agreed even if agreed at all through attrition. Again even if they agree to anything that shrinks heads dramatically over time.

There are lots of other items even besides that which will make individuals quite happy IMO. Wages, Holliday’s, Vacation, Sick Bank, PTO, and Retirement improvements.

And if there is a shrinking of headcount over time I still believe the Company will initiate a buyout to expedite that process?

Sorry Weez, forgot I was in the fleet thread. As far as aircraft maintenance goes, we expect to take a big hit. Whether they want to call it attrition or a RIF, maintenance is in trouble. Many of us lived the 95 contract and experienced first hand the company version of "attrition", again that was on the knuckle dragging` maintenance side of the house. The company set everyones expectations impossibly high. It`s apparent that was all smoke and mirrors just as many of us suspected. I doubt very much that their will be much to celebrate in this JCBA when balanced with how long it is dragging out and how many jobs will be lost. The only winners will be on the company side imho. As far as any buyout, I just do not see that happening. This company has never demonstrated a willingness to offer any kind of generous or meaningful incentive to leave, again just my opinion.

 

[WeAAsles]

The healthcare is percentages paid.

LAA pays 21% of the total cost.

The lowest LUS pays is 14% of the total cost.

So no one is losing their healthcare, the percentage of cost is the issue.

LUS IAM percentage costs survived three rounds of concessions in two separate chapter 11 bankruptcies, A JCBA with HP and a stand alone Section 6 CBA in 2014.

There is no reason why the percentage can’t stay the same or meet in the middle.

This percentage stayed the same for the IAM, while. ALPA, AFA, CWA/IBT and the TWU at US all paid higher premiums than the IAM.

It seems your taking enjoyment if the IAM members have to pay more, I hope I’m wrong.

I believe the scope will be blended and it should increase work, not lose it.

I’m not changing my Football Pool box pick that the LUS IAM insurance cost percentage will meet somewhere in the middle and “maybe” creep back up over time to fall in line with the rest of the Company’s employees costs?

Subsequent wage increases will blunt most of the economic pain to those who take the greatest hit.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

The healthcare is percentages paid.

LAA pays 21% of the total cost.

The lowest LUS pays is 14% of the total cost.

So no one is losing their healthcare, the percentage of cost is the issue.

LUS IAM percentage costs survived three rounds of concessions in two separate chapter 11 bankruptcies, A JCBA with HP and a stand alone Section 6 CBA in 2014.

There is no reason why the percentage can’t stay the same or meet in the middle.

This percentage stayed the same for the IAM, while. ALPA, AFA, CWA/IBT and the TWU at US all paid higher premiums than the IAM.

It seems your taking enjoyment if the IAM members have to pay more, I hope I’m wrong.

I believe the scope will be blended and it should increase work, not lose it.

Guess we will see about that whenever we get to a JCBA. I will stand by my prediction and opinion. LUS healthcare won`t survive in its current form. LAA scope is going to take a big hit on the maintenance side of the house.

 

[WeAAsles]

Sorry Weez, forgot I was in the fleet thread. As far as aircraft maintenance goes, we expect to take a big hit. Whether they want to call it attrition or a RIF, maintenance is in trouble. Many of us lived the 95 contract and experienced first hand the company version of "attrition", again that was on the knuckle dragging` maintenance side of the house. The company set everyones expectations impossibly high. It`s apparent that was all smoke and mirrors just as many of us suspected. I doubt very much that their will be much to celebrate in this JCBA when balanced with how long it is dragging out and how many jobs will be lost. The only winners will be on the company side imho.

dvlhog I’m the OP on this thread now and I’m always glad to read your input.

I watch the things that happened before us in the industry and I don’t see anyone on the clock right now taking any RIF to the street written into our CBA’s. (Barring of course any Act Of God, which they’ll still have in the CBA’s)

Now movement on the other hand could be unfortunately inevitable for some in both groups.

 

[The Watcher]

So, if you're correct, that means it would be totally up to the IAM to stall this process for another several years in order to maintain their current medical and scope language.

If you're correct, advantage IAM. There is absolutely no reason for them to agree to anything that changes any part of their CBA until several years into a Mediation.

There is no incentive for the IAM to do that.

It’s not worth going several more years without raises, increase in vacation, sick time, retirement, more stations opened and more work captured.

It would actually cost the members more overall for keeping the lower percentages.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

dvlhog I’m the OP on this thread now and I’m always glad to read your input.

I watch the things that happened before us in the industry and I don’t see anyone on the clock right now taking any RIF to the street written into our CBA’s. (Barring of course any Act Of God, which they’ll still have in the CBA’s)

Now movement on the other hand could be unfortunately inevitable for some in both groups.

Brother, I can say with utmost confidence. We are way overmanned in my little corner of this operation. Our new local management team has turned away a ton of work and has all but destroyed morale. Where we used to have a steady flow of work plus RON from DFW. Now its mostly piecemeal stuff, OTS and RON from our DFW coworkers. I see a near constant hiring or job openings posted for FSC, glad for you guys. Our groups days are numbered.

 

[NYer]

There is no incentive for the IAM to do that.

It’s not worth going several more years without raises, increase in vacation, sick time, retirement, more stations opened and more work captured.

It would actually cost the members more overall for keeping the lower percentages.

Well. The IAM has a pretty good protection in the Scope and they stand to have a change to their medical whether it is going to the LAA model or having their expenses go up.

That seems like a good incentive to keep what they have as opposed to any changes on the negative side.

The side with more to gain and less to lose, on the Fleet side, is the TWU.

If the argument is that we won't have a RIF on the maintenance since cuts will be through attrition, then pushing that off into the future is also going to be the preferred action by many.