JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[The Watcher]

Negotiations is negotiations.
Apples and apples.

Section 6 and JCBA are not under the same laws as Section 1113 C bankruptcy negotiations.

You can strike at the end of a 30 day cooling off period and the company is free to impose terms, in Section 6.

You can’t strike in JCBA Negotiations nor can the company impose terms.

In Section 1113 C the court can abrogate and impose and you can’t strike.

Each one is totally different and the time frame on Section 1113 C is short and the Judge controls the process.

 

[WeAAsles]

First of all there is no CBA under the Association to send in a Section 6 opener.

At HP/US separate Section 6 took place at for HP.

Same at LUS for maintenance and ramp in 2014 after the AA merger.

Also at CO/UA for maintenance and flight attendants, two totally separate Section 6, not combined.

Combined is JCBA, not Section 6.

The IAM and the TWU would have their own Section 6 opener and negotiations.

Correct. There is no Joint Association collective bargaining agreements that have become amendable and the only agreements in any legal sense of the matter that have become amendable are all separate and distinct.

Both TWU and IAM groups would have every right to request separate openers even if I’m sure the NMB would consider it counterproductive and the Company wouldn’t care much for it either.

BUT who’s fault would it fall on if it got to that point?

 

[WeAAsles]

Section 6 and JCBA are not under the same laws as Section 1113 C bankruptcy negotiations.

You can strike at the end of a 30 day cooling off period and the company is free to impose terms, in Section 6.

You can’t strike in JCBA Negotiations nor can the company impose terms.

In Section 1113 C the court can abrogate and impose and you can’t strike.

Each one is totally different and the time frame on Section 1113 C is short and the Judge controls the process.

Traymark could also be referencing our voluntary 2003 concessions granted to the Company after the disaster of 9/11/01 and under different Management. But it still was a fairly quick process.

 

[The Watcher]

You still had the threat of bankruptcy if no agreements were reached in 2003.

And those negotiations were neither Section 6, JCBA Negotiations, nor Section 1113 C.

Company’s only option if no agreements were reached was to file bankruptcy.

Those were concessionary negotiations.

 

[WeAAsles]

You still had the threat of bankruptcy if no agreements were reached in 2003.

And those negotiations were neither Section 6, JCBA Negotiations, nor Section 1113 C.

Company’s only option if no agreements were reached was to file bankruptcy.

Those were concessionary negotiations.

Correct. And those givebacks were less entangled then the current situation we’re in where language on both sides needed to be reconciled and agreed with before being presented to the Company to “hope” they liked what our 2 sides for each group came up with (Which most times they obviously didn’t)

That sends the groups almost back to square one to draft a different course to again present to the Company once again “hoping” they agree and then finally moving on to the next piece of the puzzle to be solved.

Admittedly I did personally believe that it wouldn’t take as long as it has. But at least I’m man enough to admit when I was wrong even though I expect the low life’s to throw their rocks at my admittance.

 

[NYer]

First of all there is no CBA under the Association to send in a Section 6 opener.

At HP/US separate Section 6 took place at for HP.

Same at LUS for maintenance and ramp in 2014 after the AA merger.

Also at CO/UA for maintenance and flight attendants, two totally separate Section 6, not combined.

Combined is JCBA, not Section 6.

The IAM and the TWU would have their own Section 6 opener and negotiations.

So, if you're correct, that means it would be totally up to the IAM to stall this process for another several years in order to maintain their current medical and scope language.

If you're correct, advantage IAM. There is absolutely no reason for them to agree to anything that changes any part of their CBA until several years into a Mediation.

 

[cltrat]

I’d rather allegedly rent my brains out ,than be a habitual liar who can’t prove chit. Just go the f**k away
Sorry I couldn’t resist
Back to basketball and the race for me

 

[Racer X]

I'm just going to leave this here and remind everyone, it took 56 days to take it all away for all 3 unionized work groups. Not a single solitary hiccup in negotiations when they want it done.

No one can argue that it goes away faster than it comes back. But you also shouldn’t compare concessions through bankruptcy or threat of abrogation to negotiating a TA between two separate and very different agreements.

 

[WeAAsles]

It wouldn’t make economic sense to stall for years as both the members and the Unions themselves begin to lose more economic value than they gain through any stall.

Our last raise was Sept 2017 and the longer we stand first the loss is any dramatic raise we may gain at the JCBA conclusion and then add another my guess 2 to 3% per year on top of that.

Not to mention economic improvements on the other end for retirement contributions.

The Union rock throwers like to bring up dues expenses when they want to bash their Union. Ok so if either Union purposefully chose to stall both Unions also lose very comfortable dues increases waiting around.

Unless there really was some type of Political motivation attached it just doesn’t make any sense under these circumstances to stall.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Suspect this will end up with a "Last Best Offer" from LAA. It may be tied with a send it out to vote or see you in Section 6.

In the past the TWU has accepted the LBO which always turned out to be *worse* than previous offers.

Still can't find anyone who will admit to voting "Yes" in '95 for the princely sum of 6.5% over 6...

 

[The Watcher]

Flight Attendants and the company have not finish completing their JCBA

Dude they finished their CBA a few years ago.

They are not negotiating, they havent fully implemented it.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

No one can argue that it goes away faster than it comes back. But you also shouldn’t compare concessions through bankruptcy or threat of abrogation to negotiating a TA between two separate and very different agreements.

BS. If the company wanted this done, it would be done.

 

[WeAAsles]

In the past the TWU has accepted the LBO which always turned out to be *worse* than previous offers.

Still can't find anyone who will admit to voting "Yes" in '95 for the princely sum of 6.5% over 6...

Can you tell me who any of those TWU Negotiators were by their actual Human names?

Are any of those Negotiators from back then negotiating for us today?

Are TWU Negotiators the only ones negotiating for you today?

What were the names of the Management team and Company Negotiators back in 1995?

Wasn’t 1995, 23 years ago?

 

[B737 driver]

Wow are you in Negotiations for the Association?

You don’t know what’s going on.

The Association is waiting for the company to respond to the proposal the Association gave them, you know which was written by both the IAM and TWU.

There isn’t a problem between the IAM and the TWU.

Please stop posting things you aren’t involved with nor can actually back up with facts.

It was an opinion from watching what people that work for American, complaining about your association. I never said I was there. Don't take it personally, no one is attacking you.

 

[Kev3188]

Back to basketball...

Who ya got?

It wouldn’t make economic sense to stall for years as both the members and the Unions themselves begin to lose more economic value than they gain through any stall.

Our last raise was Sept 2017 and the longer we stand first the loss is any dramatic raise we may gain at the JCBA conclusion and then add another my guess 2 to 3% per year on top of that.

Not to mention economic improvements on the other end for retirement contributions.

The Union rock throwers like to bring up dues expenses when they want to bash their Union. Ok so if either Union purposefully chose to stall both Unions also lose very comfortable dues increases waiting around.

Unless there really was some type of Political motivation attached it just doesn’t make any sense under these circumstances to stall.

It only makes “sense” if the NC is afraid of the T/A being wildly unpopular or concessionary. The fact is, we’re in an age of unprecedented highs for our industry. That’s great for the workers, but definitely puts pressure on the NC, as it means there really is no palatable give-to-get available right now (nor should there be, IMO).

In the past the TWU has accepted the LBO which always turned out to be *worse* than previous offers.

Still can't find anyone who will admit to voting "Yes" in '95 for the princely sum of 6.5% over 6...

It’s nice to see you back!