JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet. **New and improved 2.0 version**

[Tim Nelson]

Haven't argued with those guys You've tried to bring them into the conversation as that seems to be your point to disagree.

In this case, the past is not relevant because of the changes in the bargaining agent certifications.

The NMB certified 3 separate bargaining agents for the Association and extinguished the prior certification that allowed for groups to bargain collectively.

The intent of the Association may be to go through the process concurrently as they start Section 6, but the NMB can separate the three groups to assist in reaching their goal of a CBA.

Others may have different opinions and that's fine but you're the only one trying to pit people against each other.

You are actually 100% correct about this even though some negotiators dont seem to understand. Also, the company can also take the position to negotiate separately. The union has virtually no authority to dictate anything in section 6.
But if weez wants to say otherwise then I guess nobody can stop him.

 

[WeAAsles]

You are actually 100% correct about this even though some negotiators dont seem to understand. Also, the company can also take the position to negotiate separately. The union has virtually no authority to dictate anything in section 6.
But if weez wants to say otherwise then I guess nobody can stop him.

To continue on with clarity I do believe it was P. Rez who informed that in prior Section 6 Negotiations the NMB were informed that all the groups in talks would be coming out together with AIP’s or TA’s.

As of yet (still waiting) neither yourself or NYer has yet to provide ANY documentation that the NMB (US Government) can FORCE any Labor organization to accept a deal with their Company while waiting for others to follow?

Can either of you produce that documentation and end my supposed foolishness on the issue?

Remember this is not talking about a PEB or Congress imposing a Contract to protect Interstate Commerce. Which doesn’t apply to the conversation since we’re merely talking about groups who have agreements waiting for others who have not.

I’ll be patiently waiting for your documented proof Gentlemen.

 

[NYer]

Fleet can be in Napa Valley California and Maintenance can be up in Presque Isle Maine. So what.

There is NOTHING that forces a group to send a deal out for ratification if the other groups don’t also have deals. NOTHING!!!!!!!

It really is just that incredibly simple NYer.

No. It isn't that simple.

One thing the NMB can do is schedule just one group to negotiate and refuse to schedule the others groups until there is a deal with another group.

They have other "tricks" to pressure the side which doesn't want to move. In that forum, a third party dictates the who, what and where.

 

[NYer]

Oh and for each group that the NMB individually gets to reach that AIP their work is over and they can check mark their box as done.

They’ve achieved what they needed to achieve until the Membership choses the next course.

It's not done until it is ratified.

 

[WeAAsles]

No. It isn't that simple.

One thing the NMB can do is schedule just one group to negotiate and refuse to schedule the others groups until there is a deal with another group.

They have other "tricks" to pressure the side which doesn't want to move. In that forum, a third party dictates the who, what and where.

Again a group can reach an AIP (Agreement in principle) and stand by before releasing it to the Membership for consideration.

Again I ask over and over and over and over for you to provide me verifiable documentation that the NMB despite their tricks can force the Unions to put those AIP’s out for a vote?

Provide the linked proof?

 

[WeAAsles]

It's not done until it is ratified.

It’s not completed but at that stage yes the NMB has accomplished their main first step goals.

 

[WeAAsles]

Mediation

If the company and a union reach a deadlock in direct negotiations, either party can request mediation by the National Mediation Board (NMB), an agency of the U.S. government. The NMB is not required to agree to oversee mediation when the parties request it but could review the progress made to determine whether the parties should continue on their own or whether a mediator’s services would aid the process. The NMB has the option of deferring mediation if it believes the parties can make progress in direct negotiations. At the point where the NMB concludes that mediation would aid the negotiation process, it will appoint a mediator. There is no time limit for mediation under the RLA; it continues until either the parties reach an agreement or the NMB determines that the parties are at an impasse. When the NMB determines that the parties are at an impasse, it must offer arbitration as described below.

Arbitration

If mediation proves unsuccessful, the NMB must also ask the parties if they will agree to submit the matter to binding arbitration. Arbitration is voluntary. If both the Company and the union agree to arbitration, the NMB would appoint an arbitration board that would hold hearings and issue a binding decision on new contract terms.

If either party rejects arbitration, the NMB will issue a “release,” which starts what is called the 30-day cooling off period. During the 30-day cooling off period, the existing contract remains in effect and the union may not strike. During the cooling off period, the NMB will often attempt “super-mediation” in which the members of the National Mediation Board will personally attempt to mediate the dispute.

Presidential Emergency Board

If the parties have not reached an agreement by the end of the cooling-off period in this process, one of two things would happen.

If the NMB determines that the dispute substantially threatens essential transportation services to any section of the country, it must notify the President of the United States, who may choose to establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). If the President appoints a PEB, it will conduct hearings and submit a report and recommendations to the parties and the President. The recommendations are not binding, and the parties may choose to accept the recommendations of the PEB, reject the recommendations or negotiate their own agreement. During the entire PEB process and for 30 days after the PEB reports to the President, the carrier must maintain the terms of the current contract and the union may not strike. At the end of the 30-day period, unless Congress takes action, either party may exercise self-help, meaning that the union may strike and the carrier may implement new terms of employment.

If the NMB does not determine that the dispute substantially threatens essential transportation, or the President elects not to appoint a PEB, the parties may exercise self-help at the end of the 30-day cooling off period.

If the NMB and President conclude after a strike has begun that the dispute threatens essential transportation services to any section of the country, they can still convene a PEB. If that occurs, the carrier must restore the existing contract terms and the union must end any strike until the PEB process is completed.

 

[NYer]

It’s not completed but at that stage yes the NMB has accomplished their main first step goals.

Their goal is a CBA not an AIP.

 

[NYer]

Again a group can reach an AIP (Agreement in principle) and stand by before releasing it to the Membership for consideration.

Again I ask over and over and over and over for you to provide me verifiable documentation that the NMB despite their tricks can force the Unions to put those AIP’s out for a vote?

Provide the linked proof?

Hey. You don't have to believe it if you don't want. Not going to play your games.

 

[WeAAsles]

Their goal is a CBA not an AIP.

Irrelevant. AGAIN provide me verifiable documentation that the NMB can force any Labor organization to put an AIP out for a vote to its general Membership?

Perhaps you need to view things the other way. The NMB could schedule even more talks for any group who hasn’t come to a deal knowing that the others have concluded and are waiting for their last Brothers and Sisters to join them?

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey. You don't have to believe it if you don't want. Not going to play your games.

Asking for you to provide “Documentation” is a game?

Proof of claims are games?

 

[WeAAsles]

This is from a good old friend of this board NYer.

“TWA, UA, NW and US during mediation under section 6 some groups were done and the IAM didn’t announce or bring any of the TAs out until every single group had a TA.

Happened in 2014 with Ramp and Maintenance and CB and Rez can back you up on that fact.

And if AA and the Association were in Section 6 mediation both parties can agree to meet and negotiate without the mediator present.

He is giving the mediator too much power and roles they don’t fill.

There Job is to facilitate not negotiate.”

 

[B737 driver]

Their goal is a CBA not an AIP.

Which is why after 5.5-years the mediator said get it done, I think she might have given us one more month, then would have put us in the penalty box for 6months or more, like last year. Regardless how it comes out, it's good for the membership to decide.

 

[Tim Nelson]

To continue on with clarity I do believe it was P. Rez who informed that in prior Section 6 Negotiations the NMB were informed that all the groups in talks would be coming out together with AIP’s or TA’s.

As of yet (still waiting) neither yourself or NYer has yet to provide ANY documentation that the NMB (US Government) can FORCE any Labor organization to accept a deal with their Company while waiting for others to follow?

Can either of you produce that documentation and end my supposed foolishness on the issue?

Remember this is not talking about a PEB or Congress imposing a Contract to protect Interstate Commerce. Which doesn’t apply to the conversation since we’re merely talking about groups who have agreements waiting for others who have not.

I’ll be patiently waiting for your documented proof Gentlemen.

Every single section 6 negotiation EVER at Usair where the iam represented multiple groups, it negotiated entirely separately and didnt agree to wait for the other craft, except the last one.
The only other time all crafts stuck together to wait on eachother was in a non section 6 negotiation in bankruptcy wheren the iam stipulated that if either iam group failed to ratify then no ratification would be valid. However, fleet ratified while mx didnt and the iam flipped and decided to keep the ratified fleet contract.
Even at United, the iam represented 5 crafts but decided WITH the company to only tie in fleet, stores, pce, but bargain different timetables for the simulators and food service. But in the United case, the NMB also forced the iam to bargain fleet and stores together since they both were under the exact same book. NYer is right. There simply exists no evidence to support your claim.

Further, i guess unless the company agreed to expedited talks (strong possibility) im not sure the NMB would really get involved in section 6 for quite some time.

All this said, i also dont think the company will buck the union's desire to negotiate all groups with the same timetable.

 

[Tim Nelson]

And it should also b mentioned that when the iam had united mechanics, it never tied them in with ramp negotiation timetables.