It's official!

[WorldTraveler]

I have no pity for the unions.

I do for the employees who weren't told the truth and who trusted a union to do what was in their best interest - only to have those interests taken away by a mgmt. team that outsmarted labor in large part because union leaders were negligent in doing their homework in making sure Parker couldn't do what he did at US.

it is the little people - the rank and file employees at AA - who pay the price while union leaders and execs walk away fat and happy.

that should make anyone sad.

and it will hurt AA and its ability to compete in the marketplace. US is exhibit one for that argument.

 

[eolesen]

Oh, enough pandering already...
 
The truth was there for the employees to find.  They chose not to hear it.
 
Nothing was taken away by the new management team -- the FA's chose to push it back across the table.  
 
There was no outsmarting by the company negotiators -- the FA's did this to themselves by ignoring what their own leadership was telling them.
 
No, call me a cold-hearted bastard if you want to, but I have no room to pity self-inflicted misery.

 

[jimntx]

 
I'm not asking that question rhetorically, I'm literally asking.
 
It's time for soul-searching

Ad (may I call you Ad?)  there is no soul-searching to do.  You know the old adage that says, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."  AA f/as need to learn what apathy and inaction cost.  They never have before, but maybe this time, the arbitrated contract will be painful enough to make them pay attention next time.  I doubt it, but as another other old adage says, "Hope springs eternal in the human breast."
 
I've seen this time and time again in my vast career of 13 years at AA.  F/As can't be bothered reading a TA, or the bios of candidates for union office, or going to the immense trouble of actually voting.  They are, however, masters at bitching about the results of the ratification vote or election results.  When they start with me, I ask them one question...how did you vote?  Most of the time, the answer is something like "I can't be bothered with that."  I then tell them I don't want to hear their complaints.  Not voting is a vote.  It's the 3rd implied option on every ballot in every election up to and including the President of the United States.  There's YES, NO, and I don't care.  If you voted I don't care, I have no intention of wasting any part of the rest of my life listening to your complaints about the result of the election.
 
E is right on about this.  The information was there.  If you (rhetorical you) didn't use it, and vote accordingly, tough noogies. Maybe 5-7 years from now when you get presented with the next TA, you'll remember this go round.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and Jim with all honestly do you think you knew everything you were getting yourself into with AA labor's support of Parker?

again, the question is not just about the vote but about the whole process of labor's involvement with US mgmt. who worked to gain labor support for an overthrow of AA mgmt?

I don't remember your position on that deal but the vote is absolutely related to the larger labor/Parker mgmt deal.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Eoleson, sadly, I have to agree completely.  WT, it's not Parker's fault, Laura's fault or the union's fault.  It was a good TA all things considered.  The union busted its butt trying to get the word out.  Roadshows, recordings of roadshows, daily emails, YouTube links to people explaining various parts of the TA, etc. 
 
I still don't know what people expected.  In the end, emotion won out over reason.
 
MK

 

[WorldTraveler]

MK,
I'll accept your assessment.

my question for you is why Parker was willing to give AA FAs a supposedly pretty decent contract in the eyes of many of you but a whole lot of pilots immediately viewed theirs was bad....

obviously the rest of the labor groups are coming down the line but why would APFA leadership see this as a good thing while the APA immediately shot back?

 

[usfliboi]

Folks....nothing is wrong with Doug Parker....he is a business man and a good at that....just because we don't get 100% of what we want doesn't make him or a management team horrible people. I'll repeat this...go back the last 30 years and find one CEO that unions loved across the board....NONE!

 

[Overspeed]

Herb at SWA...? Gordon Bethune at CAL...?

 

[kirkpatrick]

WT, the pilots are a different group with different issues.  They may or may not perceive that they are farther behind other airlines than we are.  They also have clout, which we lack.  All three major unions agreed to binding arbitration and for the same reason - to allow the merger to go through.  The BK court wanted to be able to project labor costs into the future and binding arbitration assured no single group would get significantly more than another, when compared to the industry as a whole.
 
We'll just have to wait and see what the pilots and mechanics get, and what they do when they vote.  I have a feeling neither group will be voting no.
 
MK

 

[DNTULSA]

The pilots will probably get a good contract.
 
The mechanics? Not so much; they have the totally worthless union representing them.
 
The twu will take care of the union upper echelon in new york city.

 

[Overspeed]

DNTULSA,
All employee groups should get a good contract given AAL's current and near term financial outlook. Purely on a financial performance basis AAL is far exceeding expectations especially when you consider DL and UA are many years in to their mergers and post-BK balance sheet clearing. I am interested in what will happen with the APFA given that they were the first group to go through and present a TA to their members. The binding arbitration clause agreed to by the APFA puts a different twist on the collective bargaining process. The APFA will have the first JCBA though regardless.
 
Now what about the APA? The argument they make about profit sharing sounds valid on the surface. DL pilots make less base but more overall give that if the forecasts are correct, this profitable cycle will last at least a few years or more. Profit sharing is a risk but it looks like the good bet now. And the APA is in charge of the negotiations instead of two unions. They could come to a quick resolution (i.e. meaning less than a year in my mind).
 
The TWU and IAM are a different animal. The fact that we still don't have a NMB ruling on the Association slows things down. Once that's resolved we still have 591's DFR issue that could affect the way the Int'l is involved. The IAM has attempted to hold preliminary preparations for the Assoc to start negotiations once the NMB rules (presumably in the Assoc's favor). However we also seen the letters from Drummond, Peterson, Klima, and Lombardo that there is no labor harmony in the arranged "marriage" of the two unions as representative for AAL. So I guess the only issue we can count on is that the wage adjustment clause will kick in next year. It would have been great if the IBT had got an agreement at UA/CO but from reading their updates the NMB is about to put the IBT on ice for a while.
 
So will the TWU have an agreement soon? Looks doubtful but who knows.

 

[bigjets]

The pilots will probably get a good contract.
 
The mechanics? Not so much; they have the totally worthless union representing them.
 
The twu will take care of the union upper echelon in new york city.

Any reason why we can't get a good contract TULSA, any reason at all TULSA?

Just kidding we all know it's deep thinkers like overspeed and Owens that are keeping us down, both from the opposite sides of the spectrum, one will take anything, one wants the unicorns and chocolate rivers contract.

We deserve $45 an hour plus the good stuff

 

[eolesen]

Folks....nothing is wrong with Doug Parker....he is a business man and a good at that....just because we don't get 100% of what we want doesn't make him or a management team horrible people. I'll repeat this...go back the last 30 years and find one CEO that unions loved across the board....NONE!

 
 

Herb at SWA...? Gordon Bethune at CAL...?

 
Nice try, but I'm sure they would have both preferred to be non-union properties.  The difference is that they found ways to work proactively with the unions as opposed to in perpetual acrimony.  

 

[Overspeed]

Wait...when did Bob say he was getting us unicorns? I would strike for a unicorn. Chocolate I will pass on.

 

[MetalMover]

The unions wanted their pound of flesh.  They just didn't realize it would cost them three pounds a year later.
 
Nope, no pity.  You get what you negotiate, and the unions at AA negotiated to have Parker as their boss.  It's no different than the employees who lobbied to have Icahn takeover TWA instead of Lorenzo.  Lorenzo actually wanted to run an airline.  Icahn didn't.

Let's be clear about one thing...the union LEADERSHIP wanted a change in management and supported the merger. I don't recall ANY employee being asked his/her opinion regarding it.