Industrial vs. Craft
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Raptorman49
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Dave i'm not depressed at all, I see things for how they are i'm not a pessimist or an optimist i'm a realist because I live in the real world, I have a perfect life to be honest the only bad part of it is constantly fighting with the Union & the Company during contract time, that's why Unions are a pain in the butt, It's a lot more pleasant coming to work when were not in contract negotiations or a card drive ..... LOL
I have nothing to be depressed about you can be sure of that, i'm not that emotional when it comes to most things in life, We all have our pet peeve's that really piss us off & mine is people berating each other instead of calmly discussing the issues & trying not to be emotional about it, being emotional & berating someone will do the opposite of convince them to see the issue your way & you know it.
I do not speak for the Teamsters, whatever the Majority want at AA is fine with me, I signed BOTH cards.
Hope you learned something from that video, enjoy your time with your Family instead of wasting it on futile causes, don't berate people with different opinions, don't get angry when things don't go your way, those are the things I got from the video & try to live my life that way.
TWU informer
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Cognitive distortions are exaggerated and irrational thoughts, identified in cognitive therapy and its variants, which in theory perpetuate some psychological disorders. The theory of cognitive distortions was presented by David Burns in The Feeling Good Handbook in 1989, after studying under Aaron T. Beck. Eliminating these distortions and negative thoughts is said to improve mood and discourage maladies such as depression and chronic anxiety. The process of learning to refute these distortions is called "cognitive restructuring".
Denial (also called abnegation) is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.
Again the Issue
We started this card drive about 8 weeks ago, we have a record number of signed cards in the time frame, and all you can do is try to claim that the whole world sucks, nobody supports AMFA, and that we cannot succeed.
Your beloved Teamsters do not share your view, they are raiding the TWU, but are engaged in a campaign against craft unionism. Just go watch the Bourne video again and listen to what Appointee Bourne is saying. The Teamsters are not campaigning against the TWU, and the TWU is not campaigning against the Teamsters. Anyone using simple logic can conclude that both the TWU and the Teamsters do not currently share your pathetic and negative view. If they did, their campaign would not be directed at us, but instead each other. Is that hard to grasp, or can you see what I mean?
Raptorman49
Veteran
It's funny Dave you keep posting things that I should be posting about you & you don't see that ..... LOL
AMFA has been trying to get in at AA for 20 years & never has but still you deny that it's unlikely they will get enough cards, the just got voted out at United but still you deny they won't get enough cards, AMFA couldn't get enough cards back in 2003 when they were at their peak & their was no Teamster drive but now you think after losing several Airlines & being down to only two left & having a three way vote against an Incredibly powerful opponent like the Teamsters they will get enough cards ... that's definite DENIAL Dave
After 25 years of the TWU I know the likely outcome of this drive, the Teamsters might be able to pull it off with all their resources but that to is a long shot.
I play the odds not against the odds & accept whatever the Majority decide as their fate.
BTW you know i'm going to tell you I told you so a year from now.
AMFA has been trying to get in at AA for 20 years & never has but still you deny that it's unlikely they will get enough cards, the just got voted out at United but still you deny they won't get enough cards, AMFA couldn't get enough cards back in 2003 when they were at their peak & their was no Teamster drive but now you think after losing several Airlines & being down to only two left & having a three way vote against an Incredibly powerful opponent like the Teamsters they will get enough cards ... that's definite DENIAL Dave
After 25 years of the TWU I know the likely outcome of this drive, the Teamsters might be able to pull it off with all their resources but that to is a long shot.
I play the odds not against the odds & accept whatever the Majority decide as their fate.
BTW you know i'm going to tell you I told you so a year from now.
TWU informer
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BUT WAIT A MINUTE!
WHERE WAS THAT MONEY, POWER, STRIKE FUND, POLITICAL COUT, AND, NAME RECOGNITION?
Business as usual at the Teamsters
Hoffa blocks car haulers strike, accepts concessions
Newly-seated Teamsters President James P. Hoffa signed a tentative agreement with the National Automobile Transporters Labor Division Wednesday morning to prevent a national strike by 12,800 drivers, mechanics and yard and office workers that could have quickly disrupted the US auto industry.
Hoffa declared a victory in the negotiations, claiming that management's concession demands had been swept off the table. “Our negotiating team, members and new administration have established a new pattern for the Teamsters,” he said at a morning press conference. “We will no longer stand by and watch management step on the working men and women of this country. This contract sets a new standard for working people across the nation,” Hoffa said.
In fact, while the details of the agreement remain sketchy Hoffa has continued the Teamsters bureaucracy's long tradition of collaborating with management to boost their members' productivity and cut labor costs.
The new four-year agreement, which rank-and-file workers will vote on by mail ballot over the next several weeks, includes a wage freeze and a $1,500 bonus in the first year. This will be followed by a 50-cent increase in hourly wages in the subsequent three years that will do little to offset the stagnation of workers' living standards over the last two decades.
To win a favorable vote from older workers the union secured slight improvements in retirement payments. Pensions will be raised to the level of Teamsters freight truck drivers and United Parcel Service workers. Workers who retire after 25 years can receive $2,500 at age 55 instead of the current 57.
The Teamsters conceded to management's major demand for a “flex work week, ” ie., four 10-hour, rather than five eight-hour, days. This will enable the car hauling companies to run their operations 24 hours a day, seven days a week, by forcing shop and yard workers to work on weekends without being paid double time on Sundays.
The trucking companies sought this change to compete with railroads and nonunion car haulers and because the US auto companies are demanding lower rates to ship new cars from the assembly plants to dealerships. “Unless we change the way we do business, there will be less business for us, and fewer union jobs, in the future,” Ian Hunter, chief negotiator for the employers, said during the talks. After the agreement Hunter praised the union for averting a strike and said he looked forward to working with the Teamsters to strengthen “the unionized car haul industry in the face of ever increasing competition.”
Workers had voted by a 96 percent margin to strike against the car hauling firms. For more than two decades management and the union had pushed through concessions based on claims that the companies had no money. But with the auto industry on the way to break its sales records and the trucking companies posting large profits, workers were anxious to reverse the erosion of their living standards and working conditions.
David Healy, an auto industry analyst with Burnham Securities Inc., said a strike would have had an impact within days. “Some plants could be affected in a day or two because they'd run out of room to park vehicles that are coming off the assembly line,'' Healy said. Moreover, a strike by the car haulers would have won widespread support from auto workers who are facing contract negotiations themselves this summer. This might have raised the possibility of wildcats and other forms of protests if the auto companies had gone ahead with their threats to use non-union truckers to move new cars during a strike.
To prevent this Hoffa extended the Monday midnight deadline by 24 hours, and then delayed the Tuesday deadline by another 24 hours, before announcing a settlement Wednesday morning. Each time the union extended the contract it announced “progress” was being made. As negotiations wound down management removed its more egregious demands, such as the introduction of part-time employees and a two-tier wage system, in order to achieve its goal while allowing Hoffa to claim victory.
Over the weekend the Teamsters announced with great fanfare that the companies decided not to use Mexican drivers and trucks to deliver vehicles in the United States after the US-Mexican border opens up January 1 under the North American Free Trade Agreement. In fact, management insisted that it never intended to hire Mexican drivers. This supposed threat was chiefly created by the Teamsters bureaucracy, on the one hand to infuse anti-Mexican chauvinism into the dispute, and on the other to further bolster the claim that they had forced management to back down.
This stage-managing was required because of the car haulers' record of resistance. In 1985 car haulers struck for 23 days. In 1988 they overwhelming rejected the contract brought back by the union leadership; and in 1995 they struck again for 32 days strike against Ryder Systems.
Media commentators have suggested that car hauler talks were a litmus test for Hoffa who officially began his three-year term on May 1. Indeed Hoffa has said he will pursue the same “tough” stance in ongoing disputes such as the Detroit newspapers, Anheuser-Busch and Northwestern Airlines. This should serve as a warning to rank and file workers that Hoffa, like former president Ron Carey (who was driven out of office for embezzling union funds) before him, is preparing to sign more sweetheart deals that sacrifice their interests. It's business as usual in the Teamsters.
WHERE WAS THAT MONEY, POWER, STRIKE FUND, POLITICAL COUT, AND, NAME RECOGNITION?
Business as usual at the Teamsters
Hoffa blocks car haulers strike, accepts concessions
Newly-seated Teamsters President James P. Hoffa signed a tentative agreement with the National Automobile Transporters Labor Division Wednesday morning to prevent a national strike by 12,800 drivers, mechanics and yard and office workers that could have quickly disrupted the US auto industry.
Hoffa declared a victory in the negotiations, claiming that management's concession demands had been swept off the table. “Our negotiating team, members and new administration have established a new pattern for the Teamsters,” he said at a morning press conference. “We will no longer stand by and watch management step on the working men and women of this country. This contract sets a new standard for working people across the nation,” Hoffa said.
In fact, while the details of the agreement remain sketchy Hoffa has continued the Teamsters bureaucracy's long tradition of collaborating with management to boost their members' productivity and cut labor costs.
The new four-year agreement, which rank-and-file workers will vote on by mail ballot over the next several weeks, includes a wage freeze and a $1,500 bonus in the first year. This will be followed by a 50-cent increase in hourly wages in the subsequent three years that will do little to offset the stagnation of workers' living standards over the last two decades.
To win a favorable vote from older workers the union secured slight improvements in retirement payments. Pensions will be raised to the level of Teamsters freight truck drivers and United Parcel Service workers. Workers who retire after 25 years can receive $2,500 at age 55 instead of the current 57.
The Teamsters conceded to management's major demand for a “flex work week, ” ie., four 10-hour, rather than five eight-hour, days. This will enable the car hauling companies to run their operations 24 hours a day, seven days a week, by forcing shop and yard workers to work on weekends without being paid double time on Sundays.
The trucking companies sought this change to compete with railroads and nonunion car haulers and because the US auto companies are demanding lower rates to ship new cars from the assembly plants to dealerships. “Unless we change the way we do business, there will be less business for us, and fewer union jobs, in the future,” Ian Hunter, chief negotiator for the employers, said during the talks. After the agreement Hunter praised the union for averting a strike and said he looked forward to working with the Teamsters to strengthen “the unionized car haul industry in the face of ever increasing competition.”
Workers had voted by a 96 percent margin to strike against the car hauling firms. For more than two decades management and the union had pushed through concessions based on claims that the companies had no money. But with the auto industry on the way to break its sales records and the trucking companies posting large profits, workers were anxious to reverse the erosion of their living standards and working conditions.
David Healy, an auto industry analyst with Burnham Securities Inc., said a strike would have had an impact within days. “Some plants could be affected in a day or two because they'd run out of room to park vehicles that are coming off the assembly line,'' Healy said. Moreover, a strike by the car haulers would have won widespread support from auto workers who are facing contract negotiations themselves this summer. This might have raised the possibility of wildcats and other forms of protests if the auto companies had gone ahead with their threats to use non-union truckers to move new cars during a strike.
To prevent this Hoffa extended the Monday midnight deadline by 24 hours, and then delayed the Tuesday deadline by another 24 hours, before announcing a settlement Wednesday morning. Each time the union extended the contract it announced “progress” was being made. As negotiations wound down management removed its more egregious demands, such as the introduction of part-time employees and a two-tier wage system, in order to achieve its goal while allowing Hoffa to claim victory.
Over the weekend the Teamsters announced with great fanfare that the companies decided not to use Mexican drivers and trucks to deliver vehicles in the United States after the US-Mexican border opens up January 1 under the North American Free Trade Agreement. In fact, management insisted that it never intended to hire Mexican drivers. This supposed threat was chiefly created by the Teamsters bureaucracy, on the one hand to infuse anti-Mexican chauvinism into the dispute, and on the other to further bolster the claim that they had forced management to back down.
This stage-managing was required because of the car haulers' record of resistance. In 1985 car haulers struck for 23 days. In 1988 they overwhelming rejected the contract brought back by the union leadership; and in 1995 they struck again for 32 days strike against Ryder Systems.
Media commentators have suggested that car hauler talks were a litmus test for Hoffa who officially began his three-year term on May 1. Indeed Hoffa has said he will pursue the same “tough” stance in ongoing disputes such as the Detroit newspapers, Anheuser-Busch and Northwestern Airlines. This should serve as a warning to rank and file workers that Hoffa, like former president Ron Carey (who was driven out of office for embezzling union funds) before him, is preparing to sign more sweetheart deals that sacrifice their interests. It's business as usual in the Teamsters.
AC Tynker
Senior
- Jun 24, 2012
- 481
- 107
I pray if you ever run for elected office again in whatever Union we may have that your only votes come from the same people that supported you last time you ran without campaigning so you say and I think we may know who they were. (AMFA Supporters) Your double standards, inability to take any suggestions on what a true Leader really is and all that you display daily here I believe has been proof positive having your ideals of what is best for our Craft would only hinder any kind of progression of gaining the respect that an AMT should have. In layman terms the way you flip flop and go from good cop to bad cop and every other analogy one could think of would make our worth as aircraft maintenance professionals null and void I do believe. I do believe there is worth beyond words for what we do keeping birds in the air at a standard unmatched elsewhere around the world in my opinion. To have someone such as yourself trying to stand behind a Craft Union and use it in my opinion to make yourself finally be somebody in life is thankfully transparent with your feeble use the browbeating tactics in text. I guess what I am trying to say is I would genuinely take an Industrial Union over what You make a Craft Union any day and I believe there are many more like me such as Raptorman. I believe he is strong in his convictions and fed up with all the turmoil we have endured through the years and to try and make a mockery of that fact helps the open minded understand what I described in the beginning of this post.
- Banned
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So instead of discussing the facts, that Delle wasnt a A&P employed by an airline, and his license had probably lapsed as he didnt work in the industry for years, you have to deflect, attack and insult.
Real mature.
Dell was a mechanic for the first two years of AMFA he worked for AA in LGA now shut up!
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Mr. D-F was born in 1933, "raised and educated in R.I. and Mass." No specifics on "education" so I guess he graudated high school @18 years old. Big gap until he shows up as an licensed mechanic at Ameriacn Airlines in 1959 at the age of 26. After only 3 years of "working" he and " 3 friends" started AMFA. With his success at Ozark in 1965 he quit his job at American in 1965. So at the age of 32 and after only 6 years of work as a mechanic. By 1986 AMFA has no working members.
So he last turned a wrench in 1965!
Dont let the facts get in your way.
So he last turned a wrench in 1965!
Dont let the facts get in your way.
The facts are in your way, AMFA was started in 1962 at AA it was not originally going to be a union it was designed as a watchdog group and they attempt to change the IAM/TWU/IBT from within just as the TDU and New Directions do today. they gave up and started organizing in late 1964 they won representation at Ozark and they negotiated some of the best contracts in the industry for the next 18 years before being done in by industry consolidation in the early 1980's due to deregulation. They came back in the early nineties and the Revolution Continues we will not stop until there is One Mechanic's Union!!!
Now like I said SHUT UP you do not know what you are talking about.
In case you are confused reread your post 1959 to 1962 equals 3 years.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
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The man is retired and living in an assisted living center, Louie Key and Floyd Looney are now the National and Assistant National Directors respectively
By the way, has James C Little, James P Hoffa, R. Thomas Buffenbarger held a License or turned a wrench on an Aircraft recently? What difference does it make when viewing a comparison ?
Oh wait, maybe we should make this an issue because,
I know the the current leaders of AMFA are not only licensed but also current.
Raptorman49
Veteran
Don so you think telling people to shut up is going to help get AMFA in at AA B)
next you will be calling people a cave man, that worked out great for Luis.
AC Tynker is right I am soooo sick of the turmoil.
Raptorman49
Veteran
Yes let's just let the AMFA guys talk, everyone else shut up & let them go on and on, 12 months from now we will still have TWU with our divide & we can have some peace & quiet for another 10 years or so hopefully.
Hold on there just a minute, Raptorman has stated on this form many of times he prefers AMFA he just does not believe we will get the cards. So he is not like you a Industrial Union cultist and something you had better get clear in your mind is the line guys do not share your enthusiasm for the IBT,so if you really want out of the TWU you better sign a AMFA card too I work at DFW and we still have not seen a Teamster.
Craft Union is the way to go!!
Sign a card today.
AMFA Now!!
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