Industrial vs. Craft

[AC Tynker]

Oh now your the video police when does it end.

He was addressing video spam not trying to be law enforcement

 

[iluvaa]

He was addressing video spam not trying to be law enforcement

What's your name keyboard warrior your not an honorable man alias hiding coward haha I sound stupid saying all that but I wanted to try it out

 

[Raptorman49]

What's your name keyboard warrior your not an honorable man alias hiding coward haha I sound stupid saying all that but I wanted to try it out

Yes coming from you it does sound stupid, It only works when your addressing someone who is Berating someone from behind an Alias & a keyboard, people who are not Berating don't need to give their names because they aren't being dishonorable so they don't have anything to be held accountable for .... Its an honor code of conduct thing that I picked up while serving my country in the Military ... you wouldn't understand it.

So when can I help you roll your box out ??

 

[riceweevil]

amfa died at TULE in 2003-2004. You are just wasting your time and energy trying to resurrect amfa from the dead. The IBT is the ONLY CHOICE to de-throne the TWU at AA.

 

[Vortilon]

Raptor twit, you're not the BB police. People will call BS on your posts, just like I have. You have an ulterior motive, despite your claims of neutrality. We have seen that tactic before on this BB. Now, your new tactic is, asking for peoples names. It never works. You try ratting out posters to the moderator - whats next? You seem to crave credibility - not gonna happen. I smell desperation - as evidenced by well over 600 posts in about 1 months time. BTW, the few guys I have spoken to that know you...well - nut case with a Napoleon complex was how one guy put it. So, come on down from your high horse.

 

[Vortilon]

amfa died at TULE in 2003-2004. You are just wasting your time and energy trying to resurrect amfa from the dead. The IBT is the ONLY CHOICE to de-throne the TWU at AA.







Aerosmith has a song, it's called: "Dream On".

 

[Buck]

Raptor the more immature you continue to act, the more you claim to be non union and the more threats you make the more support you lose. And I will turn the lights out if Dave doesn't, not you.

 

[whoop whoop]

I am posting this in the AA forum since it is relevant now for AA.

Every thread on every topic seems to end up about this subject, I figured why hijack another thread. Just start a thread about it.

I will list why I favor AMFA, I would like to see counters of why someone would prefer the ibt or TWU. Maybe some good points would be made for the incumbents.

1) AMFA has a democratic process for its leadership positions. Nobody is appointed, every position is elected by the membership.

2) AMFA has a true recall process. If an elected leader does something the membership does not like or agree with, said leader is gone. Proof is at UAL in SFO.

3) AMFA officers are ALL A&P's. They still are employed by their respective carriers. That is a fail safe for bad contracts. If they negotiate a bad contract, they will have to live with it when they come back to the floor.

4) AMFA officers pay are directly linked to the memberships pay. If they negotiate a pay cut for us, they have just done so for themselves.

5) AMFA conducts open negotiations. If you are negotiating for me, I want to see you in action. There needs to be NO secrets.

6) AMFA as an organization has never crossed anybodies picket line.

7) AMFA hires professionals in their skill to advise AMFA on certain parts of negotiating a contract.

8) AMFA does not get involved with pensions or credit card offers for their profit. They just negotiate a pension for you that you want.

9) AMFA has one concern. To better the life of the A&P mechanic and related. They are not concerned or distracted by any other trade or craft or profession.

10) AMFA has open and direct communications.

Now I have gave a few examples that are FACT and not arguable. I would like to hear some on the other side. Maybe some of us will have an epiphany and realize the industrial way is the best way forward.

After going through this thread, I noticed something that I knew would happen. After some good debates and some childish ones, the original topic of this thread have still not been answered by an industrial union supporter be it iam, twu, ibt. Not 1 person has given any valid and honest reasons for supporting an industrial union.

This is what I was trying to prove by starting this thread. With the power and resources of theses big and rich industrial unions, they have nothing for us, the working man/woman. No democracy, no fight, no money, no power.

They claim they are fighting the "MAN". It's obvious they are inept and loosing. The iam, ibt and twu have not stopped one plane from being outsourced that the companies wanted to outsource. The ibt with all their power have not stopped one truck from crossing our border from Mexico. Not only have they not stopped the trucks, the trucks can now drive further inland than one state. Its only gotten worse, and the truck drivers are the ibt's bread and butter. What makes people think they have the will or the power to fight these airlines from stopping the outsourcing trend that these industrial unions helped them start.

The iam, twu or ibt can talk all they want about their resources and alleged power, but talking means nothing without the action. And they have proven over the years they are incompetent to service our needs.

There is only one union that has proven over the years to advance our cause. AMFA!!!

They negotiated industry leading contracts at Ozark, NWA, and SWA. These industrial unions could not even leap frog them 2 contracts later. If it wasn't for AMFA at NWA and SWA, we would still be in the mid $20's, all the while listening to these industrial unions telling us how bad the company is hurting, or this is our first bite of the apple, we will get them next time.

The top 2 paid passenger airline mechanics paid are AMFA represented mechanics. The proof is in the pudding my friends.

Industrial unions can talk all they want, it's only AMFA that has shown us the actions.


AMFA at all airlines, soon!!!!!!!!!!

 

[whoop whoop]

http://tdu.org/news/...-concessions


http://tdu.org/news/why-were-joining-tdu


Does this look familiar to you AA people. Why would anybody want to switch from the twu to the ibt is beyond me????

The ibt has a group within it trying to make change from within..................................25 years later.......................... well you know how the story goes.

 

[700UW]

Delle was not employed as a mechanic in the airlines while leading AMFA.

 

[whoop whoop]

Delle was not employed as a mechanic in the airlines while leading AMFA.

Again I am proven correct, nothing good to say about your SCAB representation so you try to divert. It's hard to stay on topic when you don't have anything positive to say, LOL. So predictable. I wish lotto was this easy to predict.

SCAB sympathizer.......

 

[Anomaly]

After going through this thread, I noticed something that I knew would happen. After some good debates and some childish ones, the original topic of this thread have still not been answered by an industrial union supporter be it iam, twu, ibt. Not 1 person has given any valid and honest reasons for supporting an industrial union.

This is what I was trying to prove by starting this thread. With the power and resources of theses big and rich industrial unions, they have nothing for us, the working man/woman. No democracy, no fight, no money, no power.

They claim they are fighting the "MAN". It's obvious they are inept and loosing. The iam, ibt and twu have not stopped one plane from being outsourced that the companies wanted to outsource. The ibt with all their power have not stopped one truck from crossing our border from Mexico. Not only have they not stopped the trucks, the trucks can now drive further inland than one state. Its only gotten worse, and the truck drivers are the ibt's bread and butter. What makes people think they have the will or the power to fight these airlines from stopping the outsourcing trend that these industrial unions helped them start.

The iam, twu or ibt can talk all they want about their resources and alleged power, but talking means nothing without the action. And they have proven over the years they are incompetent to service our needs.

There is only one union that has proven over the years to advance our cause. AMFA!!!

They negotiated industry leading contracts at Ozark, NWA, and SWA. These industrial unions could not even leap frog them 2 contracts later. If it wasn't for AMFA at NWA and SWA, we would still be in the mid $20's, all the while listening to these industrial unions telling us how bad the company is hurting, or this is our first bite of the apple, we will get them next time.

The top 2 paid passenger airline mechanics paid are AMFA represented mechanics. The proof is in the pudding my friends.

Industrial unions can talk all they want, it's only AMFA that has shown us the actions.


AMFA at all airlines, soon!!!!!!!!!!

In other words, you choose to claim ignorant and boast your original post, even after 128 pages is still valid and unchallenged. This only proves your intentions were to bash anyone who believes contrary to you. While you are now in an Industrial union, your displays truly are more of a selfish AMFA mentality. From one Teamster to another, I really wish YOU would go to AMFA, or anywhere you could more cynical without affecting the rest of us. I just wish you were not at UAL. It shames me to think we have another like you. Sad.

 

[Anomaly]

Delle was not employed as a mechanic in the airlines while leading AMFA.

Very True. Neither was Kevin McCormick who signed many of the agreements. Look him up. McCormick Advisory Group. "

"Some in the AFL-CIO believe that Kevin McCormick, a New Hampshire businessman, fabricates unions to make money.
His company, McCormick Advisory Group, provides help to independent unions in the airline industry.

With his assistance, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association has gone from representing no one in the late 1980s to representing thousands of mechanics at eight airlines. (They then LOST a vast majority, but McCormick still got paid)

In a highly unusual practice, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association outsources its administrative functions, such as dues collection, to McCormick.

McCormick doesn't have a traditional labor background.

In the mid-1980s, he helped raise the hull of the 18th Century British warship HMS DeBraak, nearly 190 years after it sank in Delaware Bay in May 1798. The vessel did not contain the gold treasure McCormick had hoped for.

He went on to found a business managing the business affairs of realestate associations, along the way winning the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association as a client.

"They are trying to say Kevin McCormick is making $800,000 a year," McCormick said, responding to critics. He acknowledged getting that amount from the mechanics association but said much of it covers expenses."

Read the full article; http://articles.chic...s-afl-afl-cio/2

 

[Anomaly]

Some crappy video about Seeham.

Look them up. Seeham has lost many important decision that have cost union workers greatly. As a matter of fact, your situation at AA is being directly influenced by AMFA's poor decisions and legal representation.

from http://www.transform...01_archive.html

Law Firm Loses; Workers Pay the Price


Seham Hands Management the Club

In this installment - which explores DPA's law firm choice for legal advice and counsel - we will introduce you to the two court cases that Seham lost for its client, the AMFA membership at Atlantic Coast Airlines, and consequently lost for all newly represented airline labor unions.

The law firm that has assured USAPA supporters that overturning the Nicolau Award and negotiating a new seniority list will be a "slam-dunk" is the same firm whose loss of two important cases established a precedent that hamstrings every airline union attempting to organize an unrepresented craft or negotiate a first agreement with an airline.

Should pilots be confident that the attorneys counseling USAPA can adequately advise and defend them during negotiations, as a divided group faces an experienced management on their first USAPA contract? And how meaningful is their assurance that they will successfully defend USAPA and its members against the inevitable duty-of-fair-representation lawsuit that will be brought if USAPA imposes a new seniority list over the West pilots' objections?

Here's what happened when this firm represented the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), an independent union of airline technicians and related employees, after it organized the mechanics at Atlantic Coast Airlines (ACA) in 1994.

AMFA was certified as exclusive representative for ACA mechanics on March 11, 1994, and within weeks, the union, represented by USAPA's counsel, began contract negotiations with management. In August, AMFA declared an impasse and asked the National Mediation Board to appoint a mediator.

By October, a collective bargaining agreement had still not been reached, and no mediation sessions had been held. At that point, the airline announced unilateral changes in the mechanics' rates of pay, rules, and working conditions. Sick leave would no longer be factored into overtime pay, and the lead mechanic's position was replaced by a managerial position.

AMFA filed suit against ACA in U.S. District Court, asking for a preliminary injunction against making the changes. Several other airline unions previously had won cases preventing management from making unilateral changes in pay, rules, and working conditions during the negotiating period.

AMFA's complaint was dismissed. The court found that management had no status quo obligations untilit reached an agreement with AMFA, and it was free to impose concessions. The union then appealed the decision to the Second Circuit Court of Appeals, which upheld the District Court's decision. This ruling established a terrible legal precedent that has allowed carriers free rein to impose unilateral changes on their employees prior to a first contract.

But that's not all. After losing the above argument, AMFA sued ACA again, this time seeking a declaratory judgment that, if the carrier was not obligated to honor the status quo before a first agreement, the union was free to engage in self-help-in other words, to call a strike. USAPA's counsel also lost that case-and the appeal. The Appeals Court ruled that the employees, in contrast to the employer, had a status quo obligation, and the court declared that

the right to strike does not arise in the absence of employer bad faith. Here, the Airline did what the law permitted it to do. . . . As we noted in AMFA I ..., the Union has not alleged that the Airline bargained in bad faith, and the Union has continued to refrain from making such allegations. Obviously there has been no court finding of bad faith. Accordingly, the Union cannot legally strike.​

The upshot is that DPA's firm managed to create a "heads, I win; tails, you lose" situation for management when dealing with a newly organized union. This set of precedents has been used as a club by every carrier against union drives by allowing them to say they are free to impose concessions until the union achieves a first contract, and that the union cannot strike in response.

These precedents help the firm in the management portion of its practice: But there is now a string of AMFA decisions that has undermined every union in the industry.

In previous installments of this series, we have noted that SSM&P flip-flops between union and management in choosing its clients. In light of its history with AMFA, the question remains: Who does the Seham firm really work for - management or you? The answer is clear.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Oh so you have low seniority hugh .... Well the layoff will be good for something then, I will be glad to see you go, heck I'll even help you roll your toobox out Mr. Alias Keyboard warrior. B) Let's hope it's real soon.
Hate seeing real Men have to leave but boys like you don't belong at AA anyway.
You know who I am & where I am so come see me anytime.

Bummer that you LUVAA & now have to LEAVE.

Celebrating the layoff off anyone speaks volumes to your character.

The saying "Honor among thieves" applies here.