Industrial vs. Craft

[Anomaly]

I am posting this in the AA forum since it is relevant now for AA.

Every thread on every topic seems to end up about this subject, I figured why hijack another thread. Just start a thread about it.

I will list why I favor AMFA, I would like to see counters of why someone would prefer the ibt or TWU. Maybe some good points would be made for the incumbents.

1) AMFA has a democratic process for its leadership positions. Nobody is appointed, every position is elected by the membership.

2) AMFA has a true recall process. If an elected leader does something the membership does not like or agree with, said leader is gone. Proof is at UAL in SFO.

3) AMFA officers are ALL A&P's. They still are employed by their respective carriers. That is a fail safe for bad contracts. If they negotiate a bad contract, they will have to live with it when they come back to the floor.

4) AMFA officers pay are directly linked to the memberships pay. If they negotiate a pay cut for us, they have just done so for themselves.

5) AMFA conducts open negotiations. If you are negotiating for me, I want to see you in action. There needs to be NO secrets.

6) AMFA as an organization has never crossed anybodies picket line.

7) AMFA hires professionals in their skill to advise AMFA on certain parts of negotiating a contract.

8) AMFA does not get involved with pensions or credit card offers for their profit. They just negotiate a pension for you that you want.

9) AMFA has one concern. To better the life of the A&P mechanic and related. They are not concerned or distracted by any other trade or craft or profession.

10) AMFA has open and direct communications.

Now I have gave a few examples that are FACT and not arguable. I would like to hear some on the other side. Maybe some of us will have an epiphany and realize the industrial way is the best way forward.

Since I was appointed by AMFA wannabe’s on this board as the IBT cheerleader, what the hell, I’ll give it a shot. I am no expert however and have been a Teamster only a fraction of the time as whoop whoop, but I was easily able to come up with a list of positive things about my Union. Most of this info was easily found at http://www.teamster.org

1. Teamsters have a completely democratic process starting with its International General President. Every member has a chance to decide our leadership and direction by voting from the initial nominations chosen by elected delegates, all the way to the final election process. Ballots are sent to each and every Teamster member. The Teamsters General Executive Board is voted on by the membership every five years. One member, one vote!

2. Local Officers are also elected within the Teamsters. Business agents in some Locals are elected as part of the executive committee, and at other Locals the most experienced and qualified are hired by the elected Principal Officer. This ensures the best person for the job and all the positions are held to high membership standards. If a BA does not meet the minimum expectations of the membership and the principal officer, said BA is gone. Proof is at UAL in SFO.

3. IBT executive board members and principal officers come from many areas of labor. The all bring their unique expertise and professional experience. Many of the Local Presidents are business professionals, such as Pilots and Lawyers.

4. The pay and benefits for each Local Employed Officer and Business Agent is stated in each of the Locals By Laws and are available to each member.

5. Teamsters conduct private professional negotiations, with experienced negotiators. There is no circus act and the company does not know our hand by reading it on the web. Our negotiators are full time, and negotiate agreements on an ongoing basis. These negotiations are supplemented with the Business agents who are in direct contract with the members, and with the members themselves through elected or chosen negotiating team members. These members too are held to the highest Teamster standards. The negotiating team is responsible for accepting the company proposals, and the membership is allowed a vote. Our last contract at UAL, even though an large number of us hated our first proposal, at least the Teamsters had the decency to allow us to look at the companies beat offer and vote for ourselves.

6. IBT can hold and support a strike and picket line. We have a huge war chest in the international strike fund which has amounted to over several million dollars. In addition, many Locals have their own strike fund and this money is paid IN ADDITION TO the international funds. Having a strike fund sends a message to the Employer that your Union is ready to take on a fight should it be necessary. While the money may not match your regular pay check, the money paid is much more than you might think. See how much you can expect by going to http://www.teamster.org/content/frequently-asked-questions-faq to Teamster.org . NWA strikers received nothing ($0.00) financial support from their Union.

7. Teamsters employ in house professionals who are dedicated solely to the members. There is no conflict of interest. Teamsters have their own in house fully staffed Legal, Safety and health, Economics and Contracts, Training and Development, and a dozen other departments all willing able and ready to help members when needed. Go to http://www.teamster.org and under the About Us tab, click on Departments to find out more.

8. Teamsters get involved in every aspect needed to benefit the members. Teamsters members are able to enjoy unique discounts, disaster relief aid, retiree assistance, job banks, and many other Teamster member privileges. You can get assistance and aid for many types of real life issues as a member of the Teamsters. You can also get good rates on credit cards if that's your thing. Teamsters also created the Teamster Airline Maintenance Coalition to discuss those issues immediately important to all airline mechanics. This group looks at issues outside the contracts such as outsourcing or new emerging FAA policies. All other Unions were invited to participate in collectively speaking up for our profession. The association refuses to take part or help in this collective movement.

9. Teamsters have many concerns. To better the life of the A&P mechanic and related is one of those concerns. Teamsters fight to improve working conditions, pay and benefits, and job security. Teamsters work in the negotiating rooms, board rooms, and in the offices of law makers to ensure top working conditions, benefits, and pay for all members. It takes a combination of many different fights to gain what’s right. After all, the company is fighting us constantly using weapons like the bankruptcy courts. Teamster concerns have to be broad based in order to fight for the members.
Additionally Teamsters represent many other industries outside of Aircraft Maintenance.

In 2009 the Teamster represented Pilots of Amerijet went out on strike. With only 7 aircraft and the company had no problem finding replacement pilots (the real definition of scabs) to continue flying. The other Teamster professions quickly came to these pilots aid. The headquarters were not cleaned or serviced, garbage pickup was halted, and parts were not delivered. In some of the cities served, even the airport cops are Teamsters and it was rumored that they too did unofficially supported the strike.

Unions in other countries supported the striking Teamster Pilots and made it difficult for the scab workers. The South American Government even stepped in supporting their country's labor unions and confiscated two aircraft because they did not have enough fuel to leave. The union employees tasked with providing fuel refused to cross a Teamster line. 17 striking Teamster Pilots received much more support than the thousands of striking NWA mechanics.

I see the Teamster logo everywhere, even on the ending credits for one of my favorite movies, Ironman. When a Teamster represented group goes out on strike, people know it, There is no mistaking a Teamster Picket Line.

10. Teamsters have open and direct communications. See for yourself at http://www.teamster.org and http://teamstermagazine.com

When the Teamster General President makes an announcement on labor, or backs a political candidate such as the US President, it is covered on the front pages and shown as the leading story of news casts.

Teamster members number over 1.4 million strong with hundreds of original represented contracts. More than all else, the Teamsters have the Financial capability of competeing against airlines.

How is this for a start? I expect a bunch of name calling and accusations of lying, so you are free to verify this for yourselves. I reserched all of this using google and this time, kept my opinion to a minimum.

 

[TWU informer]

I am still for a Craft Union and have no interest in another catch all industrial Union. That is my opinion and it matters to me and is really important to me also.

If the Teamsters had as much power as you claim, it would be plenty evident without having to dig out one or two small examples that we have never even heard about. Instead when I research or use google, I see more about organized crime and corruption than any stories of success.

You listed 10 items, and at least four of them are just repeats worded differently.

You insult our intelligence.

Out of the 1.5 million in the Teamsters, and out the 80,000 in the "Airline Division"...how many are mechanic and related?

Also, you still have not answered the proof of your previous claim that we get a return on investment for campaign contributions.

Maybe you can explain the many years of alledged organized crime within the Teamsters? I would love to hear an explanation of that history.

If the Teamsters are so Democratic, why is there an established watch dog group of members called the Teamsters for a Democratic Union?

Craft Unionism versus Industrial Unionism is not a new debate issue amongst union workers. But it is clear that since the AFL Craft Unionist merged with the CIO Industrial Unionist in 1955, that organized labor has been decimated and is still in decline. We need change before unionism becomes extinct. In my opinion, the Teamsters are just as much to blame as the other industrial unions.

I have no interest in subsidizing the unskilled to have a job at higher pay than their market rate at my expense. And in the end, this is all Industrial Unionism stands for.

 

[CMH_GSE]

There is a big difference in money available to the Teamsters and the TWU for that matter compared to AMFA and they also have a big edge in lawyers available to them and their ability wage legal battles vs. AMFA. That said, it remains to be seen if that muscle will lead to a better outcome in coming weeks and months compared to what AMFA could have provided.

AMFA on paper looks pretty appealing , but when you peel back the covers and see how they have performed under fire in the recent past, it does present some pause. This doesn't mean the TWU and the Teamsters are better in that regard as all unions have been under fire in the last 20-30 years, and I have my own misgivings with the TWU.



If every airline had AMFA representing their Mech & Related groups, that might eventually lead to what many want, but this won't happen overnight or even over the next few years. As AMFA gains more members , they will start to build the war chest, and the argument that the war chest would be used for mechanics & related only is appealing as it would more sharply focus the goals of the membership, or so it would seem. In theory , it sounds pretty good. In practice, it still has left something to be desired. SWA is really the only success story AMFA can point to so it would seem, if AMFA were to be successful at AA, we would need to look a lot like SWA.

If most of the current membership is willing to do that, my guess is AMFA would win the day. My suggestion is to study up on what AA would need to do to look like SWA mechanic ranks and see if that is your cup of tea. The answer to that probably has a lot to do with ones current seniority or lack of it.

 

[TWU informer]

While the Industrial Unionist promise democracy throughout their respective unions, there is one glaring issue that keeps me reminded of their true hatred for membership decisions.

While they proclaim their strength, and their vision for organized labor, they not only stood by and watched the Mechanic and Related group at NWA get busted by the imperalistic management, they also participated in job fairs to assist management in hiring the strike breaking scabs. Only because those professionals chose a path that is contrary to the imperial wizards of the socialist mega unions.

This can only be seen as their version of punishment for those Professional Aircraft Maintenance professionals making the decision, and the correct decision to leave the IAM.

Any organization that proclaims membership democracy as a virtue on one hand, and then participates in busting a union that those union members had lawfully chosen is as hyprocritic as it gets.

In other words, these industrial unions support membership democracy only as long as it conforms to their view of unionism.

Just as the AFL-CIO failed to support the PATCO Air Traffic Controllers, so to did these industrial unions not only fail to support working men and women, but they actually assisted in the busting of a union that was chosen lawfully by democractic voting of the NMB.

This alone tells me everything I need to know about their character, professionalism, and their true intentions.
Industrial Unions are nothing more than communistic dictators hiding behind a cloak of caring for working men and women. They are all about protection of their institutions and cash flow, instead of the overall advancement of the middle class and welfare of working men and women. This is why organized labor suffers, because they are evil and corrupt and this follows them like a black cloud of doom.

For more information look up the words DISGRACE and HYPOCRITE in your dictionary.

 

[TWU informer]

[font="Arial""]

Since I was appointed by AMFA wannabe’s on this board as the IBT cheerleader, what the hell, I’ll give it a shot. I am no expert however and have been a Teamster only a fraction of the time as whoop whoop, but I was easily able to come up with a list of positive things about my Union. Most of this info was easily found at http://www.teamster.org

[/font]
[font="Arial""]I am indeed seeking AMFA representation and using the term [font="Arial""]appointment[/font] is reserved for industrial unions and their Constitutions.[/font]
[font="Arial""]I have appointed no one, you earned the label on your accord.[/font]
[font="Arial""]

1. Teamsters have a completely democratic process starting with its International General President. Every member has a chance to decide our leadership and direction by voting from the initial nominations chosen by elected delegates, all the way to the final election process. Ballots are sent to each and every Teamster member. The Teamsters General Executive Board is voted on by the membership every five years. One member, one vote!

[/font]
[font="Arial""]When I read the Teamsters Consitution I see appointments of division reps, and organizers, convention delegates, ect. ect..[/font]
[font="Arial""]I see no recall procedure at all.[/font]
[font="Arial""]That is not completely a democratic process by any imagination. [/font]
[font="Arial""] [/font]
[font="Arial""]

2. Local Officers are also elected within the Teamsters. Business agents in some Locals are elected as part of the executive committee, and at other Locals the most experienced and qualified are hired by the elected Principal Officer. This ensures the best person for the job and all the positions are held to high membership standards. If a BA does not meet the minimum expectations of the membership and the principal officer, said BA is gone. Proof is at UAL in SFO.

[/font]
[font="Arial""]Did the membership take out the UAL Business or did the Dictators at the National Level?[/font]
[font="Arial""]I.E. The Principle Officer? er I mean the appointed Principal Officer[/font]
[font="Arial""]

3. IBT executive board members and principal officers come from many areas of labor. The all bring their unique expertise and professional experience. Many of the Local Presidents are business professionals, such as Pilots and Lawyers.

[/font]
[font="Arial""]You mean like the Airline Division which is ruled by Pilots not AMT's?[/font]
[font="Arial""]Please list the Officers of the Airline Division and their occupations.[/font]
[font="Arial""] [/font]
[font="Arial""]

4. The pay and benefits for each Local Employed Officer and Business Agent is stated in each of the Locals By Laws and are available to each member.

[/font]
[font="Arial""]Same as AMFA, TWU, IAM or any other Union.[/font]
[font="Arial""]

5. Teamsters conduct private professional negotiations, with experienced negotiators. There is no circus act and the company does not know our hand by reading it on the web. Our negotiators are full time, and negotiate agreements on an ongoing basis. These negotiations are supplemented with the Business agents who are in direct contract with the members, and with the members themselves through elected or chosen negotiating team members. These members too are held to the highest Teamster standards. The negotiating team is responsible for accepting the company proposals, and the membership is allowed a vote. Our last contract at UAL, even though an large number of us hated our first proposal, at least the Teamsters had the decency to allow us to look at the companies beat offer and vote for ourselves.

[/font]

 

[TWU informer]

Private negotiaitons....Is that a code word for more TWU Secret Negotations?
Negoations on an ongoing basis....Is that more continuous side letters unratified by the membership?

6. IBT can hold and support a strike and picket line. We have a huge war chest in the international strike fund which has amounted to over several million dollars. In addition, many Locals have their own strike fund and this money is paid IN ADDITION TO the international funds. Having a strike fund sends a message to the Employer that your Union is ready to take on a fight should it be necessary. While the money may not match your regular pay check, the money paid is much more than you might think. See how much you can expect by going to http://www.teamster....to Teamster.org . NWA strikers received nothing ($0.00) financial support from their Union.

You just cannot support the ibt without bashing others can you?

7. Teamsters employ in house professionals who are dedicated solely to the members. There is no conflict of interest. Teamsters have their own in house fully staffed Legal, Safety and health, Economics and Contracts, Training and Development, and a dozen other departments all willing able and ready to help members when needed. Go to http://www.teamster.org and under the About Us tab, click on Departments to find out more.

And what is this going to the AMT's in a Union that is 1.5 million members and we would be the minority?

8. Teamsters get involved in every aspect needed to benefit the members. Teamsters members are able to enjoy unique discounts, disaster relief aid, retiree assistance, job banks, and many other Teamster member privileges. You can get assistance and aid for many types of real life issues as a member of the Teamsters. You can also get good rates on credit cards if that's your thing. Teamsters also created the Teamster Airline Maintenance Coalition to discuss those issues immediately important to all airline mechanics. This group looks at issues outside the contracts such as outsourcing or new emerging FAA policies. All other Unions were invited to participate in collectively speaking up for our profession. The association refuses to take part or help in this collective movement.

All fluff and no substance. Looking at outsourcing and FAA polices has been goin on for a long while now. you have had your warchest of cash in the same time frame. What has that accomplished? Nothing!

 

[TWU informer]

9. Teamsters have many concerns. To better the life of the A&P mechanic and related is one of those concerns. Teamsters fight to improve working conditions, pay and benefits, and job security. Teamsters work in the negotiating rooms, board rooms, and in the offices of law makers to ensure top working conditions, benefits, and pay for all members. It takes a combination of many different fights to gain what’s right. After all, the company is fighting us constantly using weapons like the bankruptcy courts. Teamster concerns have to be broad based in order to fight for the members.
Additionally Teamsters represent many other industries outside of Aircraft Maintenance.

Fighting to to improve working conditions, pay and benefits, and job security is what the fight was about at northwest vs amfa strike. IBT, TWU, and the IAM turned their backs on those AMT's. Now I turn my back to you and your IBT.

In 2009 the Teamster represented Pilots of Amerijet went out on strike. With only 7 aircraft and the company had no problem finding replacement pilots (the real definition of scabs) to continue flying. The other Teamster professions quickly came to these pilots aid. The headquarters were not cleaned or serviced, garbage pickup was halted, and parts were not delivered. In some of the cities served, even the airport cops are Teamsters and it was rumored that they too did unofficially supported the strike.

If the IBT would have supported AMFA AMT's at Northwest I would be more impressed. Since that did not happen, this message is hallow and meaningless. And to top that crap, you actually have the balls to use that lack of support as a organizing tool. Get Lost. You are not PRO-AMT at all, you simply pro industrial unionism.

 

[Tex-Mech]

http://www.teamster....ovember-12-2011

The Teamsters Airline Division has had a relationship with the Transport Workers Union Air Transport Division for some time now. Between our two Unions, we represent roughly 30,000 in the Aircraft Maintenance and related Class and Craft.

We have joined forces on a number of occasions including the fight on foreign outsourcing of aircraft maintenance and other issues that are of importance to our collective membership. The meeting, held in the TWU offices in Washington DC, included a vibrant discussion on MRO’s both foreign and domestic and what we can do to ensure the quality of Aircraft Maintenance Safety in the future.

The meeting was hosted by TWU Workforce Development Specialist Gordon Clark. Present from the TWU were, John Conley Administrative Assistant to the International President, Chris Oriyano TWU Business Process and Research Analyst, John Donnelly Director of Strategic research, Angela Cox Strategic Research dept. and Attorney David Rosen.

Representing the IBT were, Bob Fisher International Representative Airline Division, Cassandra Ogren Strategic Research and Campaigns, Airline Division Attorney Nick Manicone and Chris Moore International Representative Airline Division.

Meetings will continue in the coming months as we continue explore synergies that will allow us to drive issues of importance to both of our mechanic and related members.

Isn't Chris Moore the one now claiming to be raiding the TWU. And Gordon is the guy being paid by AA.

 

[TWU informer]

http://www.teamster....ovember-12-2011




Isn't Chris Moore the one now claiming to be raiding the TWU. And Gordon is the guy being paid by AA.

BINGO!

 

[TWU informer]

Unions in other countries supported the striking Teamster Pilots and made it difficult for the scab workers. The South American Government even stepped in supporting their country's labor unions and confiscated two aircraft because they did not have enough fuel to leave. The union employees tasked with providing fuel refused to cross a Teamster line. 17 striking Teamster Pilots received much more support than the thousands of striking NWA mechanics.

Again you use the IBT lack of support for striking AMT's at Northwest at a campaign tool. You have no real unionism within you.
You are an IBT zealot and that is all.

I see the Teamster logo everywhere, even on the ending credits for one of my favorite movies, Ironman. When a Teamster represented group goes out on strike, people know it, There is no mistaking a Teamster Picket Line.

And like the TWU, the slogans and logos mean eveything to you fools, but produce nothing for the AMT profession.

10. Teamsters have open and direct communications. See for yourself at http://www.teamster.org and http://teamstermagazine.com

Is it open and direct communications or PRIVATE NEGOTIATIONS?

Cannot be both can

When the Teamster General President makes an announcement on labor, or backs a political candidate such as the US President, it is covered on the front pages and shown as the leading story of news casts.

That is a laughable tool to bring to the table.
If that is all that matters to you and other union men, then we are screwed big time.

Teamster members number over 1.4 million strong with hundreds of original represented contracts. More than all else, the Teamsters have the Financial capability of competeing against airlines.

Strenght in Numbers is the mainstay idea of industrial unions. Not worth a damn to me or this profession.

How is this for a start? I expect a bunch of name calling and accusations of lying, so you are free to verify this for yourselves. I reserched all of this using google and this time, kept my opinion to a minimum.

When I research Teamsters using goole, I find stories of corruption, organized crime, and the Teamsters for Democratic Union group having to watch dog their own union. But thanks for the advice and spin.

 

[Buck]

Anomaly, on 20 June 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

When the Teamster General President makes an announcement on labor, or backs a political candidate such as the US President, it is covered on the front pages and shown as the leading story of news casts.

What presidential candidates has the IBT supported in the past.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Anomaly, on 20 June 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

When the Teamster General President makes an announcement on labor, or backs a political candidate such as the US President, it is covered on the front pages and shown as the leading story of news casts.

What presidential candidates has the IBT supported in the past.

Right, and when jim little backs obama for president what happens? Do we get someone "friendly" to labor in the NMB? Wow, political clout of industrial unions is what exactly?

 

[Anomaly]

http://www.teamster....ovember-12-2011




Isn't Chris Moore the one now claiming to be raiding the TWU. And Gordon is the guy being paid by AA.

I have heard of Chris Moore is, but I do not know what he is doing. I do not know Gordon. Sorry.

 

[whoop whoop]

Since I was appointed by AMFA wannabe’s on this board as the IBT cheerleader, what the hell, I’ll give it a shot. I am no expert however and have been a Teamster only a fraction of the time as whoop whoop, but I was easily able to come up with a list of positive things about my Union. Most of this info was easily found at http://www.teamster.org

1. Teamsters have a completely democratic process starting with its International General President. Every member has a chance to decide our leadership and direction by voting from the initial nominations chosen by elected delegates, all the way to the final election process. Ballots are sent to each and every Teamster member. The Teamsters General Executive Board is voted on by the membership every five years. One member, one vote!

2. Local Officers are also elected within the Teamsters. Business agents in some Locals are elected as part of the executive committee, and at other Locals the most experienced and qualified are hired by the elected Principal Officer. This ensures the best person for the job and all the positions are held to high membership standards. If a BA does not meet the minimum expectations of the membership and the principal officer, said BA is gone. Proof is at UAL in SFO.

3. IBT executive board members and principal officers come from many areas of labor. The all bring their unique expertise and professional experience. Many of the Local Presidents are business professionals, such as Pilots and Lawyers.

4. The pay and benefits for each Local Employed Officer and Business Agent is stated in each of the Locals By Laws and are available to each member.

5. Teamsters conduct private professional negotiations, with experienced negotiators. There is no circus act and the company does not know our hand by reading it on the web. Our negotiators are full time, and negotiate agreements on an ongoing basis. These negotiations are supplemented with the Business agents who are in direct contract with the members, and with the members themselves through elected or chosen negotiating team members. These members too are held to the highest Teamster standards. The negotiating team is responsible for accepting the company proposals, and the membership is allowed a vote. Our last contract at UAL, even though an large number of us hated our first proposal, at least the Teamsters had the decency to allow us to look at the companies beat offer and vote for ourselves.

6. IBT can hold and support a strike and picket line. We have a huge war chest in the international strike fund which has amounted to over several million dollars. In addition, many Locals have their own strike fund and this money is paid IN ADDITION TO the international funds. Having a strike fund sends a message to the Employer that your Union is ready to take on a fight should it be necessary. While the money may not match your regular pay check, the money paid is much more than you might think. See how much you can expect by going to http://www.teamster....to Teamster.org . NWA strikers received nothing ($0.00) financial support from their Union.

7. Teamsters employ in house professionals who are dedicated solely to the members. There is no conflict of interest. Teamsters have their own in house fully staffed Legal, Safety and health, Economics and Contracts, Training and Development, and a dozen other departments all willing able and ready to help members when needed. Go to http://www.teamster.org and under the About Us tab, click on Departments to find out more.

8. Teamsters get involved in every aspect needed to benefit the members. Teamsters members are able to enjoy unique discounts, disaster relief aid, retiree assistance, job banks, and many other Teamster member privileges. You can get assistance and aid for many types of real life issues as a member of the Teamsters. You can also get good rates on credit cards if that's your thing. Teamsters also created the Teamster Airline Maintenance Coalition to discuss those issues immediately important to all airline mechanics. This group looks at issues outside the contracts such as outsourcing or new emerging FAA policies. All other Unions were invited to participate in collectively speaking up for our profession. The association refuses to take part or help in this collective movement.

9. Teamsters have many concerns. To better the life of the A&P mechanic and related is one of those concerns. Teamsters fight to improve working conditions, pay and benefits, and job security. Teamsters work in the negotiating rooms, board rooms, and in the offices of law makers to ensure top working conditions, benefits, and pay for all members. It takes a combination of many different fights to gain what’s right. After all, the company is fighting us constantly using weapons like the bankruptcy courts. Teamster concerns have to be broad based in order to fight for the members.
Additionally Teamsters represent many other industries outside of Aircraft Maintenance.

In 2009 the Teamster represented Pilots of Amerijet went out on strike. With only 7 aircraft and the company had no problem finding replacement pilots (the real definition of scabs) to continue flying. The other Teamster professions quickly came to these pilots aid. The headquarters were not cleaned or serviced, garbage pickup was halted, and parts were not delivered. In some of the cities served, even the airport cops are Teamsters and it was rumored that they too did unofficially supported the strike.

Unions in other countries supported the striking Teamster Pilots and made it difficult for the scab workers. The South American Government even stepped in supporting their country's labor unions and confiscated two aircraft because they did not have enough fuel to leave. The union employees tasked with providing fuel refused to cross a Teamster line. 17 striking Teamster Pilots received much more support than the thousands of striking NWA mechanics.

I see the Teamster logo everywhere, even on the ending credits for one of my favorite movies, Ironman. When a Teamster represented group goes out on strike, people know it, There is no mistaking a Teamster Picket Line.

10. Teamsters have open and direct communications. See for yourself at http://www.teamster.org and http://teamstermagazine.com

When the Teamster General President makes an announcement on labor, or backs a political candidate such as the US President, it is covered on the front pages and shown as the leading story of news casts.

Teamster members number over 1.4 million strong with hundreds of original represented contracts. More than all else, the Teamsters have the Financial capability of competeing against airlines.

How is this for a start? I expect a bunch of name calling and accusations of lying, so you are free to verify this for yourselves. I reserched all of this using google and this time, kept my opinion to a minimum.

Thank you Anomaly.

You are the first person to give an answer. But, you only have proved our point of why we know AMFA is better.

1) It is not COMPLETELY democratic. Yes, there are elections for General President and local officers, but thats about it. From chief shop steward to BA's to negotiating committee to Airline Division President are all appointed without even informing the membership.

2) You mentioned HIRED. My point!! Who does this hired person have loyalty to, me the member or the organization that hired him???

3) My point AGAIN!!!! I don't want other areas of expertise. I am an A&P mechanic. I want expertise in MY profession, thank you!!!

4) Who cares if they are available?? Is their pay directly linked with the memberships? I'll answer for you. NO!!! Again proves my case, thank you.

5) What is there to keep secret from the company????? It IS the company you are negotiating with isn't it???

6) Let's not go there. They are SCABS that helped a greedy corporation bust the very group they now want to represent. SCABS!!!!

7) Not impressive. After 14 years of the teamsters, I have seen nothing of their " In house" anything used for me. I have seen their " In house" Pension people lie to my face about how good their pension plans are, just to rob me of my hard earned money.

8) The TAMC was created to lure the UAL mechanics to vote for the ibt, that's all. They have done nothing to curb outsourcing AT ALL!!! All appointed maroons pretending they are important with the members dues money. Talk about fraud,waste and abuse.

9) The teamsters have not done a single thing to better the lives of the A&P. They have lead the industry in farming out of our profession. I will say it again. UPS, SWA for 20 years before AMFA, Frontier, CAL. teamsters have helped push us back further than the lost NWA strike has ever done.

10) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Open and direct communications???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Have you forgotten that I am represented by them and know the truth, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! Ohhh that was good. I can say I'm tall dark and handsome all day long, does it make it true? I keep on hoping so, but NO, it does not.

As far as the 1.4 million members. Has it done them any good stopping the Mexican truckers driving their trucks in the good ole U.S. of A? I'll answer that one too, NO!!!!! Not only can they come over the border, now they can go numerous states inland, as before they had to drop their loads in TX.

So again, thank you for solidifying my support for AMFA and my contempt for the SCAB ibt.

 

[Anomaly]

Right, and when jim little backs obama for president what happens? Do we get someone "friendly" to labor in the NMB? Wow, political clout of industrial unions is what exactly?

The IBT requested White House support for a moratorium on foreign outsourcing until the FAA budget bill was finally passed. The new bill does offer some minor changes that help to level the playing field, but personally I think Congress folded. "Industrial unions" like the IAM, TWU, and the IBT continue to lobby and petition for more strict regulations regarding foreign aircraft maintenance on US airlines. For the record, your Craft Union boasts doing the same thing. It can be found on their web site.

The MRO's are winning and outspending even the large Unions. Politicians are simply not openly supporting ANY unions. Industrial vs craft is such a waste of time and unfortunately the wrong fight. In the battle for Unions in America, brother, we are both loosing.