Industrial vs. Craft

[TWU informer]

Never mind. I was going to find and upload a video where a seated President of the United States was speaking on behalf of AMFA, but there is none. Why would any Democratic leader speak on a unit who's sole intent is to destroy real Union power? This, after all, is AMFA's mission. An "independent association' formed to weaken our class and craft. Those who say otherwise are part of the deception.

I would be much interested in your perspective of what this has produced for the Mechanics of the Airline Industry? How much did that "speak on behalf" as you call it cost the union man and what did the workers that paid for it get in exchange?

"Real Union Power" what does that mean? Give us some examples.

 

[TWU informer]

Do you really want to be represented by group that does not want your skill? AMFA is for Aircraft Line Mechanics only. They do not want you. At Alaska and Southwest they have seen to it that most or all the back shops have been closed down and they now represent Line Mechanics. Look at their publication, The Grapevine as proof.

In the airline industry, unions are made up of members of a particular craft and class, which is determined by
the National Mediation Board (NMB). Industrial unions will represent any and all crafts. On the other hand,
there are craft unions, like AMFA, that will represent only a specific craft and are focused on the needs of their
specific members.

As an Aircraft Mechanic, there is no better choice for a Union than AMFA!

They want Aircraft Mechanics, NOT welders.

TWU Informer, what is it that you do again? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

This isn't about me, and I know the truth regarding AMFA position on welders. You seem to be the only one that is making negative remarks regarding my skill. You are great asset though, stick around and keep up your babble.

You can make this personal all you want, you can attack my skill all you want. But just like your political campaign contributions that you claim have a great return on investment, when asked what you get, you will have nothing to show for your efforts.

 

[Anomaly]

The B-Scale Plague


American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in November 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.

Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency. — Martin C. Seham​

Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.

 

[TWU informer]

The B-Scale Plague


American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in November 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.

Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency. — Martin C. Seham​

Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.

Keep digging that hole, soon we will file these signed cards, and bury your ass at whatever depth you have dug yourself...enjoy the darkness. That is all you seem to know, is fear and smear, focused and consumed by the negatives of the world, so darkness should fit you just fine. I will be happy, you will be happy. Fair trade off.

 

[Anomaly]

Why does the truth Scare you so much??


The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is an independent union that represents aircraft maintenance employees of commercial airlines in the United States. AMFA is committed to the principles of craft unionism, in that it seeks to represent only aircraft mechanics and related employees, a "craft or class" recognized by the National Mediation Board under the Railway Labor Act applied to airlines. It is a particularly vocal opponent of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers and has found itself in competition with the International Brotherhood of Teamsters and Transport Workers Union of America as well.

AMFA was created in 1962 but did not represent any carrier until 1964, when it won recognition at Ozark Airlines. AMFA has since won bargaining rights at Alaska Airlines, ATA, Horizon Air, Independence Air, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines and United Airlines. AMFA traditionally favors high wages in collective bargaining, often trading away the right to subcontract in return. The union has also garnered their membership from other unions like the International Association of Machinists and Transport Worker's Union, a practice the latter view as membership raiding. The role of the McCormick Advisory Group, a real estate agency operated by Kevin McCormick in Laconia, New Hampshire, has also been attacked by AMFA opponents. They have pointed to the role of McCormick Advisory in funding AMFA's early activities and collecting over one million dollars annually in vague services rendered to the union. AMFA's national office is also quartered with that of the McCormick Advisory Group in Laconia. Notably, AMFA's sister union, the Professional Flight Attendant's Association (PFAA) recently rid themselves of McCormick over fears of corruption.

Most recently, AMFA launched a strike against Northwest Airlines on August 19, 2005. The strike failed to significantly disrupt flight operations, as Northwest, in preparation for a strike, organized for replacement workers to immediately begin performing maintenance at hub cities. In the subsequent months, hundreds of AMFA members have crossed their own picket lines and returned to work at the airline, rescinding their membership of the union. Union leaders have been quick to brand anyone crossing their picket lines negatively. AMFA Local 33 in Minneapolis St-Paul has taken pictures and listed names of "Scabs" who crossed picket lines, by listing these people on their website. However, many who have crossed and others who have not point out that AMFA refused to allow its members a vote on any of the company's first three offers. Critics have also pointed to voting irregularities when AMFA finally did allow a vote on Northwest's fourth proposal in December. The offer was rejected.

 

[TWU informer]

Why does the truth Scare you so much??

Not scared at all, that might be your impression, but I am not the least bit scared.

Again, I don't even know if MCCormick Advisory group is still around, and that group really has no relevance because advisors can be hired and fired. Why can you not grasp that?

But you seem to have no explanation regarding the negatives associated with being a minority work group in a majority rule organization.

That is why you focus your attack on me and other individuals, because you have no answer for the Industrial Union Institutional flaw.

The AMFA experience has been different at every carrier represented and it will be different at AA too. Will we succeed? I don't know, that will be up the Mechanics at American to decide and be involved in their new union. To claim otherwise by using examples of other cariiers is nothing more than fear and smear to protect the Institutional flaw of Industrial Unionism.

You see the difference? I speak of the flaws of the Institutional Structure, you focus on attacking individuals.

 

[Anomaly]

An Oldie but a goodie....

AMFA MEETING

EMERGENCY!! EMERGENCY!!! EMERGENCY!!!!

Read all about It!

Are Time is expiring!
Cards are dropping off!
We need your help!

Subject: Come learn about the miss-information, lies and half-truths we
Are famous for! We will educate you on how to continue!

Speakers: Delle will accompany The Owners Kevin McCormick and
Lee Seham to the Tulsa amfa/agw/pfaa/ Info. Meeting!

Date and Time: Yet to be determined!

Cost to attend: Will be determined by the amount of Non Union T-shirts
And Raffle tickets sold!

Location: Sheridan or what ever is Convenient!

Reason: Due to the fact the TWU Members are more Educated! AND During the 2000 campaign we had over 50% signed as reported by Delle in the Detroit Newspaper Dated March 16, 2001. The Participation is dwindling and we have overstated our card counts again!

Please! Please!! Help!!!!!

Come One Come all with your checkbook in hand, we will have a 50/50 pot available to help fund the cost of the location and we expect you to donate your half to amfa local 12 President for a vacation!



Disclaimer: Subject to change without Notice! Local 12 or anyone else, not responsible for any omissions, changes or funds
Collected for this event! Humor Control!

 

[TWU informer]

Great post and beneficial to the readers. Thanks for all that you do! Come in off the playground before the sun goes down and make sure you stay hydrated.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The B-Scale Plague


American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in November 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.

Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency. — Martin C. Seham​

Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.

And just what have the teamsters done to remedy any of this ...... NOTHING!

Lets just have a look at UALs current agreement.

Under AMFA, mechanics topped out after 5 years

Under the ibt and the NEW CBA, mechanics now top out after 6 YEARS!

Real "teamster power" there.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Speaking of "teamster power" how about the major screw job the ibt performed on the cleaners?

Oh sure the ibt mouth pieces on this board and others like to try and fling the cleaners at AMFA all the time, but just take a look at the new UAL agreement.

Under the AMFA (old) agreement, a cleaner topped out at $17.44

Under the ibt (new) agreement, a cleaner now tops out at $14.18

Just another splendid example of "teamster power" .... or lack thereof.

 

[TWU informer]

Speaking of "teamster power" how about the major screw job the ibt performed on the cleaners?

Oh sure the ibt mouth pieces on this board and others like to try and fling the cleaners at AMFA all the time, but just take a look at the new UAL agreement.

Under the AMFA (old) agreement, a cleaner topped out at $17.44

Under the ibt (new) agreement, a cleaner now tops out at $14.18

Just another splendid example of "teamster power" .... or lack thereof.

Interesting that everytime you show up with these facts, the mouth piece leaves.

 

[Kev3188]

[font=Helvetica Neue'][background=rgb(255,255,255)]SSM&P helped bring the B-scale into the industry and, while representing unions, lost cases that gravely undermined your right to strike and negotiate. They have been fired by the APA and the PFAA, and over the past five years, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), their primary labor client, has been reduced from 17,000 to approximately 3,000 dues-paying members. Simply put, SSM&P's record in no way supports its claim to your trust.



Thanks for the reminder. I knew Seham was fired by the Allied Pilots Association but I forgot the exact reason why. I also remember the AMFA’s Director (Delle) protested the firing and the APA told him to get lost.




From the Seham law firm? Nice. Isn't that the firm that bragged about bringing in the B scale for the AA pilots in the 80s? 


Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.


As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency.

—Martin C. Seham[/background][/font]

How does "being close to negotiations" equate to "helping" usher in the B-Scale?

 

[Hopeful]

Just another splendid example of "teamster power" .... or lack thereof.

And we all just know how STRENGHTH IN NUMBERS has helped us to date.

 

[Buck]

And American Airlines ushered in the B-Scale all alone without the help of the union on the property. It does not amaze me that the TWU is as powerful today as it was in 1983.

 

[aapitbull]

Why does the truth Scare you so much??

It would appear the truth Scares you, right after Informer post the pie charts that show not only we would be a minority in the Airline Division but how the Airline Division makes up less than 10% of the Teamsters in total you went off, reposting old articles written by others who had political reasons to lie.

The fact remains as the charts say we would be grossly under represented at all levels of the Teamsters,including the locals we would be forced into on the line.Look at Mia for example the 500 guys in Miami would be forced into a Teamster local with 11,000 members that means they would be about 5% of the local and things are not much better anywhere else on the line.

So go blame Dell he is Retired,go blame McCormick his company was let go years ago,Blame Marty Seham he is dead may he rest in peace or his firm they are hired hands and In my opinion on of the best around,Blame the Mechanic' at NWA who had more guts in their little toe than you and your band of liars and thieves.Nothing is ever your fault you always blame others for your failures and the history of labor is littered with the failures of Industrial Unions, but all you can do is blame the republicans and democrats the supreme court, public opinion and of course Independent thinkers Like AMFA that dare to tell you the road you are on leads to the middle of nowhere and you should turn back.

DRIVE ON!!! until all unions are dead and gone!!!!