If they are On Board, write em up

[CactusPilot1]

The ramp agent that asked/told the flight crew member to get off the ramp did nothing wrong, he/she was doing what they are told to do, challenge anyone without a SIDA badge. If the aircraft is not on the gate, there is absolutley no reason for a crew member to be on the ramp. Now, what if the ramp agent did not challenge the crew member and TSA or Airport Ops were watching, who would have gotten their SIDA pulled if the badge did not have an ES endorsement on it? It's just like a Capt is in charge of the aircraft, the ramp agents are in charge of the ramp until that aircraft parks....No badge, no aircraft on the blocks, stay in the terminal until your legal to go out... Kudos to the ramp agent for following the rules...

This sounds like a case of they are not "on board" so let's harass the West pilot doing a walk-around, wink-wink. I think this crewmember was right to report the harassing behavior. Bottom line, do not interfere with a pilot trying to do his job. A preflight is part of his/her duties. I expect that I will be able to get paperwork from operations without being harassed as well.

These are quotes are policy at US Airways. Any manager allowing this type of activity is subject to termination:

Management/Supervisory personnel are expected to:

Manage the work environment in a way that discourages any form of harassment, hostile work environment, or discrimination;

Monitor the workplace to identify harassing or discriminatory situations;

Take immediate and appropriate corrective action should an instance of discrimination or harassment be brought to their attention or should they suspect that such improper conduct is occurring;

Refer complaints to the Human Resources Department; and

Post this memo in the workplace and ensure all employees have proper training on this policy.

Any management or supervisory personnel who fail to meet these expectations, or fail to comply with US Airways’ non-discrimination policies in any other way, shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action up to and including termination.

 

[Hope777]

This sounds like a case of they are not "on board" so let's harass the West pilot doing a walk-around, wink-wink. I think this crewmember was right to report the harassing behavior. Bottom line, do not interfere with a pilot trying to do his job. A preflight is part of his/her duties. I expect that I will be able to get paperwork from operations without being harassed as well.

These are quotes are policy at US Airways. Any manager allowing this type of activity is subject to termination:

Management/Supervisory personnel are expected to:

Manage the work environment in a way that discourages any form of harassment, hostile work environment, or discrimination;

Monitor the workplace to identify harassing or discriminatory situations;

Take immediate and appropriate corrective action should an instance of discrimination or harassment be brought to their attention or should they suspect that such improper conduct is occurring;

Refer complaints to the Human Resources Department; and

Post this memo in the workplace and ensure all employees have proper training on this policy.

Any management or supervisory personnel who fail to meet these expectations, or fail to comply with US Airways’ non-discrimination policies in any other way, shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action up to and including termination.

BOTTOM LINE : You are NOT allowed on the ramp unless the aircraft you are flying is AT THE GATE ! So have what ever hissy fit you want, but I would do the same thing and ask you to leave the ramp. If you made the choice not too, see what happens.

 

[CactusPilot1]

BOTTOM LINE : You are NOT allowed on the ramp unless the aircraft you are flying is AT THE GATE ! So have what ever hissy fit you want, but I would do the same thing and ask you to leave the ramp. If you made the choice not too, see what happens.

Bottom line, you don't have the authority to interfere with my pre-flight duties or risk having to explain your actions to HQ in Tempe, AZ.

 

[Art at ISP]

While the issue described in the first post may have some valid points on both sides, this thread has become an embarrassment to the airline, the industry, the unions, and the fine people who actually care about doing their jobs properly. It is indicative of why this company's labor issues may be broken beyond repair....12 pages so far of bellyaching, fingerpointing, accusations, insults, threats, and only in the last 2 posts do we have any rational analysis of the situation.

Whatever the cause, management has succeeded in turning you on each other rather on them....shame on you all.........

While I realize the posters on this board represent a very small percentage of actual employees, this thread says it all about the culture, distrust, anger and frustration which is going to drive this place into the ground.

Yes there may be some valid issues here, but I don't see anyone who cares enough to try to find a workable solution--because there probably isn't one...you may be far past a viable solution....

I have said this many times...if people would put the same energy they spend into fighting threatening, thumping their chests and just having general pi**ing contests, you might actually come out with a viable airline.....but at the end of the day that's probably NOT what management wants.......

This thread makes both management AND labor look horrible.

My BEST to you all....

 

[Missfit]

Bottom line, you don't have the authority to interfere with my pre-flight duties or risk having to explain your actions to HQ in Tempe, AZ.

Don't your pre-flight duties require an aircraft to be present?? I don't know...just asking....

 

[CactusPilot1]

While the issue described in the first post may have some valid points on both sides, this thread has become an embarrassment to the airline, the industry, the unions, and the fine people who actually care about doing their jobs properly. It is indicative of why this company's labor issues may be broken beyond repair....12 pages so far of bellyaching, fingerpointing, accusations, insults, threats, and only in the last 2 posts do we have any rational analysis of the situation.

Whatever the cause, management has succeeded in turning you on each other rather on them....shame on you all.........

While I realize the posters on this board represent a very small percentage of actual employees, this thread says it all about the culture, distrust, anger and frustration which is going to drive this place into the ground.

Yes there may be some valid issues here, but I don't see anyone who cares enough to try to find a workable solution--because there probably isn't one...you may be far past a viable solution....

I have said this many times...if people would put the same energy they spend into fighting threatening, thumping their chests and just having general pi**ing contests, you might actually come out with a viable airline.....but at the end of the day that's probably NOT what management wants.......

This thread makes both management AND labor look horrible.

My BEST to you all....

Art,

I think you came in at the right time.

I've been doing walk-arounds on aircraft since the late 70's and never had such an encounter. I've got some business at the credit union today and I think I will viisit HQ and bring this up. If there is some new policy that says I can't be on the ramp, fine, the agent can do the walk-around, hand me my paperwork and get off my aircraft. If that is the way they want it, fine with me. It just reduces my workload.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Don't your pre-flight duties require an aircraft to be present?? I don't know...just asking....

I've gone down to ops and never had a problem with an aircraft not present. I've never had a problem at an East or West base. Never had a cross word with an East crew. This one burns me up though.

We need clarification of this issue before it spins out of control.

 

[LD3]

Almost immediately upon setting foot on the ramp, a ramp agent (whom I assume was the ramp lead for that gate) approached me in what I interpreted as a hostile manner asking me what I was doing on the ramp. I informed him that I was there to meet the incoming plane and do my preflight duties.

As the aircraft approached the terminal area, he again approached me and asked me to leave "his" ramp. I was somewhat taken aback by this request and asked him to repeat. He informed me that he didn't want me in the way.

I offered to stand next to the terminal, some 40 feet away from the aircraft parking area to which he told me that he wanted me in the jetway and off the ramp so that I "would not be in the way of any of his crew" as they parked the aircraft.
---------------------------------------------

I think this pretty well sums it up....Right now CLT has a target painted on it's back due to past security issues...The ramp agent was doing the correct thing.

 

[Missfit]

If you're just moving through to ops, I'm sure there isn't a problem.

Hanging out around the jetway, on the ramp, when an aircraft is showing up, seems to put you in the way....Especially when the aircraft hasn't been blocked in. No one is trying to harass anyone they're just trying to keep the operation safe. This situation seems to have been blown out of proportion because of the "On Board" thing, I'm assuming a west pilot feels as though all the east work groups are colluding against them. On Board is not something that violates company policy in anyway...you might not support it but it does have to do with safety. Following the rules isn't a bad thing.

You don't stand out on the ramp waiting for an aircraft to park.

Stay out of the way and no one will ask you to leave the ramp. If you want to get your pre-flight done expeditiously it takes all of 10 seconds to walk down and do it. You can wait for them to park the plane, move the jetway, etc,etc....
Pilots aren't the only people who have a job to do.

Remember it's not all about you.
(That goes for everyone)

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Nice of you to drop by!! What's wrong? Doug not need a beer tonight or a foot massage?

Keep deflecting from the real issues by attacking me.

Irony is so ironic.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

This sounds like a case of they are not "on board" so let's harass the West pilot doing a walk-around, wink-wink. I think this crewmember was right to report the harassing behavior. Bottom line, do not interfere with a pilot trying to do his job. A preflight is part of his/her duties. I expect that I will be able to get paperwork from operations without being harassed as well.

These are quotes are policy at US Airways. Any manager allowing this type of activity is subject to termination:

Management/Supervisory personnel are expected to:

Manage the work environment in a way that discourages any form of harassment, hostile work environment, or discrimination;

Monitor the workplace to identify harassing or discriminatory situations;

Take immediate and appropriate corrective action should an instance of discrimination or harassment be brought to their attention or should they suspect that such improper conduct is occurring;

Refer complaints to the Human Resources Department; and

Post this memo in the workplace and ensure all employees have proper training on this policy.

Any management or supervisory personnel who fail to meet these expectations, or fail to comply with US Airways’ non-discrimination policies in any other way, shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action up to and including termination.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I think this pretty well sums it up....Right now CLT has a target painted on it's back due to past security issues...The ramp agent was doing the correct thing.

This is the way the argument should be going. If CLT is under the microscope then I have a bit more understanding. I'd have more sympathy for an agent under that kind of pressure.

If it is a turf war then it is a different issue.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I follow SOP's when operating an aircraft. If there were no standard operating procedures then the flight deck would be chaos. Are you suggesting that there should be not such policies at a base? Do you really think sweeping concerns under the carpet is a good idea? I want clarificatiion on exaclty where I can stand on the ramp. If there has been a sudden change in ramp procedures, I want to know about it.

 

[Harry Callahan]

While the issue described in the first post may have some valid points on both sides, this thread has become an embarrassment to the airline, the industry, the unions, and the fine people who actually care about doing their jobs properly. It is indicative of why this company's labor issues may be broken beyond repair....12 pages so far of bellyaching, fingerpointing, accusations, insults, threats, and only in the last 2 posts do we have any rational analysis of the situation.

Whatever the cause, management has succeeded in turning you on each other rather on them....shame on you all.........

While I realize the posters on this board represent a very small percentage of actual employees, this thread says it all about the culture, distrust, anger and frustration which is going to drive this place into the ground.

Yes there may be some valid issues here, but I don't see anyone who cares enough to try to find a workable solution--because there probably isn't one...you may be far past a viable solution....

I have said this many times...if people would put the same energy they spend into fighting threatening, thumping their chests and just having general pi**ing contests, you might actually come out with a viable airline.....but at the end of the day that's probably NOT what management wants.......

This thread makes both management AND labor look horrible.

My BEST to you all....

Art:
IMHO this isn't a West or East issue it was simply the ramp doing their job. As LD3 has pointed out Clt is "under the gun" right now on security issues. Wouldn't have matter if pilot was East or West for all I know the ramp crew didn't even know. No SIDA badge no ramp access. I don't think any of us are willing to risk having our badges pulled for a violation.

 

[flybynite]

There is no "turf war" going on between the west pilots and clt rampers. If someone got yelled at it was probably because they were trying to be heard over a screaming engine.

I know most of the rampers in clt and they are a very nice bunch of men and women. But they have a job to do also.