IBT No Show Forum

[AvTech04]

To side note, I have to apologize about any errors in grammar or spelling, this iPhone likes to autocorrect more than it should... For example, when I type "if" it autocorrects to "of", makes no sense. And I don't go back and read what I've written, so everything's a rough draft...

 

[Swadl]

AVTECH04- you are absolutely correct about our contract. There is alot of grey areas, and a great deal of verbiage needs to be changed where it can be read and understood by a 5th grader. I feel we still have the best contract in the industry despite the grey areas.

 

[Swadl]

Another quick question: When the intergration is all done what local will Atlanta be in? Will they have there own local in Atlanta or start a new local? I'm assuming the AT guys in MCO will go into local 18 and Atlanta and there other stations that don't already have SWA maintenance will start a new local.

 

[MadMan337]

Here's a scenario that should fall right in line with the NO voters. We vote down the SLI and then we coexist under separate CBA's during all the legal wrangling and fancy manuevering. During all that, SWA decides to shut down maintenance in any of the SWA stations. The only stations a SWA mechanic could bump into would be an existing SWA station possibly putting a SWA mechanic on the street while the AT mechanics are unaffected. So using the same scenario that has everyone voting NO if we do vote down the current offer and then decide we want to delay, block or just do everything we can to prevent a full integration, we would in fact be putting the SWA mechanics in the same position that everyone says we cannot live with. The sooner we get to an integration agreement the better it is for everyone. Get a decision and move on. Don't bother screaming at me about fear mongering or scare tactics neither apply here.

 

[MadMan337]

double post

 

[MadMan337]

Another quick question: When the intergration is all done what local will Atlanta be in? Will they have there own local in Atlanta or start a new local? I'm assuming the AT guys in MCO will go into local 18 and Atlanta and there other stations that don't already have SWA maintenance will start a new local.

It is undecided, the AMFA National is still looking at possible alignments. One that was very interesting is maybe combining DAL with ATL and all other AT stations going under Local 18 while moving 18's Local to MDW.

 

[Swadl]

Madman--- your scenario could be right on, it also could apply to the AT folks for NOT coming back to the table or by IBT not wanting to negotiate in good faith. It could be played either way! And I'm not sure how long you have been at SWA but getting most of our mechanics to not vote in a contract will be tough. Alot of these guys will sell you out for OT or a .50 cent raise. I hate to say it but it's true. And the company knows it!!

 

[MadMan337]

Madman--- your scenario could be right on, it also could apply to the AT folks for NOT coming back to the table or by IBT not wanting to negotiate in good faith. It could be played either way! And I'm not sure how long you have been at SWA but getting most of our mechanics to not vote in a contract will be tough. Alot of these guys will sell you out for OT or a .50 cent raise. I hate to say it but it's true. And the company knows it!!

Agreed on all points.

 

[lineguy]

Here's a scenario that should fall right in line with the NO voters. We vote down the SLI and then we coexist under separate CBA's during all the legal wrangling and fancy manuevering. During all that, SWA decides to shut down maintenance in any of the SWA stations. The only stations a SWA mechanic could bump into would be an existing SWA station possibly putting a SWA mechanic on the street while the AT mechanics are unaffected. So using the same scenario that has everyone voting NO if we do vote down the current offer and then decide we want to delay, block or just do everything we can to prevent a full integration, we would in fact be putting the SWA mechanics in the same position that everyone says we cannot live with. The sooner we get to an integration agreement the better it is for everyone. Get a decision and move on. Don't bother screaming at me about fear mongering or scare tactics neither apply here.

Since we're dealing with the purely hypothetical here, why in your fictional tall tale would Southwest decide to shut down a maint. station? In retaliation for us not agreeing to their integration plan? Surely Southwest would just pay any laid off mechanic while staying home.

 

[swamt]

Here's a scenario that should fall right in line with the NO voters. We vote down the SLI and then we coexist under separate CBA's during all the legal wrangling and fancy manuevering. During all that, SWA decides to shut down maintenance in any of the SWA stations. The only stations a SWA mechanic could bump into would be an existing SWA station possibly putting a SWA mechanic on the street while the AT mechanics are unaffected. So using the same scenario that has everyone voting NO if we do vote down the current offer and then decide we want to delay, block or just do everything we can to prevent a full integration, we would in fact be putting the SWA mechanics in the same position that everyone says we cannot live with. The sooner we get to an integration agreement the better it is for everyone. Get a decision and move on. Don't bother screaming at me about fear mongering or scare tactics neither apply here.

I do see your point. However, if in the scenario one station was shut down, that would mean all effected would indeed have to excersize their sen. and bid to wherever they may land. But, I do believe we have language covering that as long as SWA is farming out maint. (outsoursing) then nobody will hit the street. SWA would have to pull all maint. "in-house" in order to be able to lay anyone off. Just my quick thoughts after reading your scenario. I may and can be wrong without going to the CBA but my answer is a raw how I understand it.

 

[MadMan337]

I do see your point. However, if in the scenario one station was shut down, that would mean all effected would indeed have to excersize their sen. and bid to wherever they may land. But, I do believe we have language covering that as long as SWA is farming out maint. (outsoursing) then nobody will hit the street. SWA would have to pull all maint. "in-house" in order to be able to lay anyone off. Just my quick thoughts after reading your scenario. I may and can be wrong without going to the CBA but my answer is a raw how I understand it.

It's always been understood that SWA could not reduce headcount while outsourcing any work customarily performed by AMFA mechanics. This would not prevent them from realigning where maintenance is performed. I used the phrase "possibly putting a SWA mechanic on the street" because this language has never been tested or practiced. When push comes to shove the company could test this language ( not fear mongering just a hypothetical) by acting as they see fit and cause us to react through the grievance process. I only brought up this scenario because it is exactly like the ones being discussed as to why we should vote no on this proposal. I also want to point out that delaying an arbitrator's ruling by blocking a Transition agreement paints us into the same corner this so called flawed proposal would. Voting down the proposal is one thing, but, all the talk about blocking the AT mechs from ever integrating fully sounds like a contradiction to the logic for voting no. In my humble opinion if there is going to be any displacement or realignment to maintenance personnel it will happen in the 2-5 years following SOC, which falls right in line with what I'm reading on here as to how long guys would like to hold off an integration. Yes both sides could be equally affected or it could be unequal.

 

[squidly]

It's always been understood that SWA could not reduce headcount while outsourcing any work customarily performed by AMFA mechanics. This would not prevent them from realigning where maintenance is performed. I used the phrase "possibly putting a SWA mechanic on the street" because this language has never been tested or practiced. When push comes to shove the company could test this language ( not fear mongering just a hypothetical) by acting as they see fit and cause us to react through the grievance process. I only brought up this scenario because it is exactly like the ones being discussed as to why we should vote no on this proposal. I also want to point out that delaying an arbitrator's ruling by blocking a Transition agreement paints us into the same corner this so called flawed proposal would. Voting down the proposal is one thing, but, all the talk about blocking the AT mechs from ever integrating fully sounds like a contradiction to the logic for voting no. In my humble opinion if there is going to be any displacement or realignment to maintenance personnel it will happen in the 2-5 years following SOC, which falls right in line with what I'm reading on here as to how long guys would like to hold off an integration. Yes both sides could be equally affected or it could be unequal.

If i didn't know better, you sound just like the kind of management that has put southwest on the track it's on now. Instead of working with the employee groups and knowing the value of a happy productive employee, you seem to have no respect for the value of a productive employee and wish to rule thru intimidation and the use of a strong fist and threats. This is why the unions thrive today.

 

[swamt]

Just voted on the senority/trans agreements. Sent it back with a "NO" vote.
Get rid of para 9&10 and the fences and I will be willing to change my vote.

 

[MadMan337]

If i didn't know better, you sound just like the kind of management that has put southwest on the track it's on now. Instead of working with the employee groups and knowing the value of a happy productive employee, you seem to have no respect for the value of a productive employee and wish to rule thru intimidation and the use of a strong fist and threats. This is why the unions thrive today.

Your statement makes no sense and I fail to see how it is relevant to my post. Saying that I am management friecndly is very far off base.

 

[swamt]

I will say this. All mechanics need to send E-mails to AMFA National and your AMFA local on what it will take to get this SLI to pass. Don't just sit there on your keesters, get involved. The more voices they hear the more they will act. Start sending the messages in now so they will have the info by the time they all get back to the table, if and when this is voted down. Get involved, speak your minds, and above all, VOTE!!!