IBT No Show Forum

[swamt]

Here's what I was told by 2 different observers. One late last night, the other early this morning.

AMFA was told first thing that the IBT has removed all decision making from the AT cmte and group. The IBT did all the talking. The IBT Attorney is who did almost all talking. He said IBT passed 2 things across first thing; thier "transitional" agreement offer on what they expected from the company, and thier counter to AMFA's written 4 year offer. IBT stated that the trans and SLI were tied together, and the reason for thier movement off of DOH to thier 2.5 yrs offer was only if the company agreed to thier demand for "Full pay now" and with "Full retro pay" back dated to Jan 1, 2012. He also stated that the pay was the most important to thier members and that they wanted to get on our contract as soon as it was possible to start earning the wages we do. With all that said, most all of the day was spent on the IBT/AT side dealing with the company and thier Transitional egreement. Since they were adament about the two being tied together, the AMFA group was discussing the SLI part while IBT and company were passing counters on the transitional agreement. After spending some time, it was finally brought to the IBT's attention that the company is not and will not give the AT guys "Full Retro Pay" back dated to 1-1-2012. It was very strongly indicated that the AT guys will get full pay starting on the first pay period after all agreements are voted in. I would also like to add that they had some rediculous stuff in thier trans agreement about carring over vacation all the way into 2013. They also wanted to keep the trax extra days going into 2013.
The company Rejected all these things and sent back a final pass of the transitional agreement. By the end of the day, the IBT informed AMFA that the company refused to budge on most all of thier demands concerning pay with retro, vac accrule and carry overs, trax days ect... They also informed AMFA that they were accepting the company's final transitional offer. They also ended the day with thier written counter offer of 2.5 yrs the rest of it was the same except for three added para's at the end that AMFA may be willing to agree to or change very slightly. The IBT said they will remain at thier 2.5 yrs even though the company refused all the full pay with retro. They all set a date for next week to meet again. I think they set it for Wed. of next week. Basically guys, we are right where we were going into yesterdays meeting. Due to the IBT wanting to settle thier trans agreement with the company. Next meeting will be dealing full bore with the SLI, and it appears to be only down to the number of years. IBT at 2.5 AMFA is at 4 yrs. The IBT and the AT guys are fully aware from telecomunications and E-mails that AMFA cannot move off of the 4 yrs. AMFA did not have time yesterday to formally tell them as the AT group walked out in discuss either with the company's trans agreement, or they were discussed with how the IBT got nowhere with the retro pay that they once had in thier previous trans agreement. One observer said he thought they were pissed at the company and the other observer said he thought they were pissed off at the way the IBT handled it. However, they are not pissed at the AMFA guys, at least not yet... On a side note; some of the AT guys from the large group that showed up this time were having discussions outside of the nego rooms and were over heard. The AT cmte group is divided up about 70-30. 70% was willing to vote on the 4 yr offer and 30% was willing to vote on the 2.5 yr offer. Most leaning for the 4 yr was alot of the members as observers he said. Both observers were very certain we will have something to vote on after the next meeting on March 11th. If I missed anything someone please chime in, I wrote it down this time while conversing with both observers.

 

[swamt]

The AT guys have now seen how the this integration proccess goes with the company the longer they drag this out. Myself and several other posters have posted how it will soon start to get ugly on the company's side of the table. Now you guys have seen this first hand and they now know we were not "fear mongering" or threatening, It is now fact. We told you guys that it would start to get ugly and it will be the money part to be the first hit, just like it was with the pilots. You guys had "full pay and full pay retro" with your last trans agreement. Now the 5% is gone for Jan 1, 2012. Now the full pay and retro is gone for March 1, 2012. Now the new date the IBT signed off on for you guys is "as soon as all the agreements are voted in. Trust me, if this gets dragged out any more it will continue to get worse and worse. Also don't forget, if this goes to arbitration then that's when AMFA's Attorney's start to get ugly as well. You thought 4 yrs was bad, you will more than likely see the 8-12 yrs come back in arbitration. Remember we start completely over again once we enter arbitration. And the LOA remains if we go to arbitration. yea, yea, yea we all have heard how the IBT will sue AMFA over this LOA. And this is one of the many leagal items that would have to be worked out in order for an arbitrators ruling to be inacted, all this will take many years to clear up.
Also remember this. It would better protect our lower to mid senority guys as the LOA would stay, so even if you guys recieved DOH, the LOA protects "ALL" SWA guys no matter anyones senority. I am telling you guys, our guys are not afraid of arbitration what-so-ever. Take the 4 yrs and run with it, other wise the yrs are going to grow as we go along. All 3 party's have already started the Proccess Agreement. We tried to tell you guys that this was coming, we were simply warning you guys, not threatning or fear mongering. We are doing the same thing again now, it will only get worse and ugly from here on out. Hope your nego cmte sees this and allows your members to vote on the 4 yrs this coming 11th.

 

[SWA.TECH]

Looks like the Reamsters are up to there old tricks.... we'll tell you whats good for you... LOL. keep giving those crooks your hard earned money! SUCKERS. Better get control of your representation, there gonna represent a boat load of cash right out of your pockets , with dues to boot! LMFAO. Classic case of when "keeping it real goes wrong" I truly do have empathy for the AT MX group. Anyway , guess the hiring for the third line in DAL is starting/started?

 

[SWA.TECH]

And the Canyon blue paint keeps on spraying.........

 

[swamt]

Looks like the Reamsters are up to there old tricks.... we'll tell you whats good for you... LOL. keep giving those crooks your hard earned money! SUCKERS. Better get control of your representation, there gonna represent a boat load of cash right out of your pockets , with dues to boot! LMFAO. Classic case of when "keeping it real goes wrong" I truly do have empathy for the AT MX group. Anyway , guess the hiring for the third line in DAL is starting/started?

All I can say now is your correct, typical IBT propaganda. keeping the dues coming in. But last meeting they took a huge kick in the b**ls, with the pay and retro issue. Now they will continue to reep the dues into the next meeting where the years are at issue, and yet again it will be brought to thier attention that the 4yrs is what it is. Take it to your members or we are going to arbitration, period, end of story, any more questions...

 

[Swadl]

I was told that AT Mechanics in Atlanta signed some sort of letter to the IBT saying they want this done now! And I've heard from the AT mechanics that they are more than willing to accept the 4 year bump offer. Hopefully the IBT will listen to its members and do what they want. At least let them vote on it and the numbers will decide the outcome.

 

[SWA.TECH]

I was told that AT Mechanics in Atlanta signed some sort of letter to the IBT saying they want this done now! And I've heard from the AT mechanics that they are more than willing to accept the 4 year bump offer. Hopefully the IBT will listen to its members and do what they want. At least let them vote on it and the numbers will decide the outcome.

LOL, like thats gonna happen. On another note we averaged 120 pax per flight out of Hartsfield today, money maker!

 

[AvTech04]

I was told that AT Mechanics in Atlanta signed some sort of letter to the IBT saying they want this done now! And I've heard from the AT mechanics that they are more than willing to accept the 4 year bump offer. Hopefully the IBT will listen to its members and do what they want. At least let them vote on it and the numbers will decide the outcome.

The petition and rally on the local was for a 2.5 year counter offer instead of the IBT's intended DOH counter offer so that this could move forward and not stand still. The IBT and committee have agreed that the 2.5 is the lowest it will go given the integration agreement changes made by the company and will not move from that number regardless of the company offer, meaning we won't go back to DOH. If the retro would have stayed, then we would be voting on the 4 years already, but since that was agreed to be taken off the table by both the IBT and the company, we went with the counter offer. It was voted and agreed that if AMFA stays firm on the 4 years on 04/11 then we would continue with the process agreement hence forth to arbitration in June. I hope we have something to vote on and not for fear or losing my job or for the gain of money, just for agreements sake so we can move passed this integration and move on.

We had a cook out with some of the SWA mechs in MCO and they seemed to be a pretty good group of guys, the ones who showed up. Obviously timid on our current integration situation, but polite none the less.

Also, I asked a few SWA mechanics that I know about the 4 years and they told me that they never voted on anything, so, where did this unanimous vote for 4 years come from?? 1 mech was from MCO, 3 are in DAL and 1 in PHX. They all told me the exact same thing, they didn't vote on anything nor had the opportunity to. So I ask you SWADL or SWAMT, where did the 4 year vote actually come from?

 

[POBIT]

I heard a rumour that a group of dayshift structure mechanics got together and had an informal meeting and came up with this proposal. However I feel the last offer was a better deal that we swa mechanics botched because it was a 4 year minimum bump with many of us getting many more years ontop of that. I do feel the fences were a problem but I couldn't care less because I have no desire to leave my current station let alone go to any of the 5 airtran stations.

 

[swamt]

The petition and rally on the local was for a 2.5 year counter offer instead of the IBT's intended DOH counter offer so that this could move forward and not stand still. The IBT and committee have agreed that the 2.5 is the lowest it will go given the integration agreement changes made by the company and will not move from that number regardless of the company offer, meaning we won't go back to DOH. If the retro would have stayed, then we would be voting on the 4 years already, but since that was agreed to be taken off the table by both the IBT and the company, we went with the counter offer. It was voted and agreed that if AMFA stays firm on the 4 years on 04/11 then we would continue with the process agreement hence forth to arbitration in June. I hope we have something to vote on and not for fear or losing my job or for the gain of money, just for agreements sake so we can move passed this integration and move on.

We had a cook out with some of the SWA mechs in MCO and they seemed to be a pretty good group of guys, the ones who showed up. Obviously timid on our current integration situation, but polite none the less.

Also, I asked a few SWA mechanics that I know about the 4 years and they told me that they never voted on anything, so, where did this unanimous vote for 4 years come from?? 1 mech was from MCO, 3 are in DAL and 1 in PHX. They all told me the exact same thing, they didn't vote on anything nor had the opportunity to. So I ask you SWADL or SWAMT, where did the 4 year vote actually come from?

I do know for sure that a huge meeting was held in Dallas at shift change time for the dayshift and the eve shift of mechanics on duty for that day. I believe this was done the day before going back into nego with the 4 yr offer. During this such meeting it was explained what would happen at the table the following day and that they needed to know what the absolute lowest number the membership was willing to go to, to allow the nego team to bring it to a vote. This was voted on by all who attended and that number was 4yrs unaminously. Not one member (at this meeting) voted for anything lower or higher for that matter. As for all the other stations it was told to the membership that the respective ALR's and reps also did a vote and it also came from them that the lowest number was 4 yrs. They had to do this very quickly, and yes, not the entire membership was present at these meetings. However they were able to get a vote from the majority of the membership. Most all the guys based thier 4 yrs on the fact that the AT mechanics already voted in the minimum of 4 yrs with the last vote and thought that this number was not only fair but that it would have the highest probility of passing since it was already voted in by the first vote from the AT guys. Some of the guys wanted to go in higher to settle at 4 yrs but the nego cmte was very adiment about going in with the bottom number and holding to it in order to get this done instead of he-hawing around with start high and settle down to 4. This is why you guys are hearing the 4 is the lowest, because they did not come in with a high number to nego. Let it also be known that AMFA has moved the greatest from the previous min 4 yr max 70% as well as the 12 year from long ago. Sorry to hear you guys are not willing to vote on the 4yr agreement. On 4-11-12 if there is not an agreement to vote on the 4 yrs then they will be forced to move forward with arbitration and no telling how long this will continue into the future. Hate to say it but arbitration is better for the SWA guys as the March 29 LOA will remain in tact. This is why the SWA guys don't care if it goes to arbitration. If the IBT desides to challenge the LOA then this would have to be settled prior to an arbitrators decision being enforced which will take years. Not sure if SWA or the AT guys are wanting to put this off for such a long time but your nego team will have to make that decision come Wed the 11th. If you guys really do want this to be over with I would recomend the membership inform the nego team what to do as the membership did with the AMFA nego team. Good luck guys and talk to your nego team as well as the teamsters and IBT, don't let them string you guys along just so they can still collect the union dues that they know they are fixin to lose. The IBT is very political in this area as you all have seen in the past since all this crap started. The ball will be in the AT nego teams court come Wed. what they do with it and your alls futures is completely up to them, so now is the time to put large amounts of pressure on your nego team. Again, good luck to all of you guys.

 

[WNMECH]

Come on man.
SWAMT,
I have never before seen you spin info before.
Why start now?
I know we are close to the final decision on arb or not, but let's keep it factual.

I was at that meeting.
The comittee members REFUSED to discuss numbers with us.
Dal did not decide on this 4 year number.
Some people tried to throw numbers around but they were shut down and told they would not discuss the number they were going in with period.
The committee already had their number decided by conference call the day before.
The meeting and vote was only to see a if we all would agree to give up our LOA in exchange for a straight number of years with no fences.
That was unanimous.
We did not vote on 4 years.
While you could see from the discussion at the meeting that it appeared that most wanted more than 4 and no one said any number less than 4 years, you could assume that is our lowest number.
Please don't tell these guys we all put our hands up to say 4 years.
That didn't happen.
Keep it real swamt as you always have.
Leave the spin to others.

 

[WNMECH]

I did not correct the 4 year vote thing to try and undermine us at the table.
Just to correct the record.
When this goes to arbitration I don't want anyone to believe that we in Dallas came up with the 4 year number and did not move off it.
It is the committee who picked it from speaking with people from their stations or they pulled it from a hat, I don't know, but dal did not vote on 4 years.

 

[Swadl]

AVTech--- WNMECH is dead on with the 4year offer!! What he says is the fact. If you were to ask the membership they would like a higher boost I promise you that! And as to the 4 year boost in our seniority if it goes to a vote they (the Comte) will still need to sell it to the membership. I feel it will pass but will be a close vote. I hope all the info WNMECH and myself answers your questions. Btw glad to see you back.

 

[Flman]

Do you guys on SWA side see a mood change a sense of urgency from your guys and cmmt to get this done this week? We do.

 

[WNMECH]

Do you guys on SWA side see a mood change a sense of urgency from your guys and cmmt to get this done this week? We do.

No.
But we have agreed to the arbitration process agreement and there is no stopping that.
So it is clear to everyone that the end to negotiations portion of the process is at hand one way or the other.