IBT No Show Forum

[swamt]

First ballot results are in: Just posted at AMFA National web site;

AMFA - SWA Letters of Agreement Referendum Results

The votes for the AMFA – Southwest Airlines Letters of Agreement (LOAs) Referendum were tallied on February 14, 2012. Ballots for this referendum were counted and certified by TrueBallot, Inc. The results are as follows:



DFW LOA

Rejected



LOA #5
Maintenance Controllers

Accepted



LOA #6
Maintenance Technical Instructors

Accepted



LOA #7
Technical Support Mechanics

Rejected

Forgot to to post this: The Facilities Maint. employees voted to accept their LOA as well...

 

[swamt]

Now the way I understand it is the DFW guys will now have to bid into the AT system wherever their senority takes them, and bid into Dal when bids are posted. Is this correct? Which is exactly what should have happend in the first place. Sorry for the hassle the DFW guys will endure, but it's the same hassle as other AT employees being displaced do to stations closing, plus they have a contract that needs to be followed for station closures, not favortism.

 

[swa1963]

Your absolutley correct and many have sacrificed to make Luv one of most respected Airlines in the world. I hope that bitterness and Change doesnt effect the culture here as well, we had a good thing going.

That my friend depends on You! If A simple thing as a Seniority Date changes your attitude, Then this Company was NEVER the job for you. Like many others here you just come to work & go home! Many of our employees here have NEEEEVER been through any tough times here at Southwest Airlines or any other Airline for that matter. I remember While ValuJet was buying Air Tran. Every Major Airline was out Gunning for Us with So-called Lite versions of Airlines to run us out of business. Do you remember that?. I also recall getting my VHS (LOL!) in the Mail from Herb himself saying we had to beat all these airlines so bad that all of them give up the Idea and noone else tries it. He said we will all make it or all go down together. no slow death at Southwest. I am proud to say We Are Still Here! 9/11 Southwest kept Everyone on the payroll even though we were losing money every day.
Everyone else Laid off! Many of us donated a portion of our Pay to help with Fuel. Southwest Airlines Management Thanked us and Donated the money to Charity! We made it anyway in Spit of everything! Herb has Always Said Complacency will bring Southwest Airlines down

 

[buscador]

That my friend depends on You! If A simple thing as a Seniority Date changes your attitude, Then this Company was NEVER the job for you. Like many others here you just come to work & go home! Many of our employees here have NEEEEVER been through any tough times here at Southwest Airlines or any other Airline for that matter. I remember While ValuJet was buying Air Tran. Every Major Airline was out Gunning for Us with So-called Lite versions of Airlines to run us out of business. Do you remember that?. I also recall getting my VHS (LOL!) in the Mail from Herb himself saying we had to beat all these airlines so bad that all of them give up the Idea and noone else tries it. He said we will all make it or all go down together. no slow death at Southwest. I am proud to say We Are Still Here! 9/11 Southwest kept Everyone on the payroll even though we were losing money every day.
Everyone else Laid off! Many of us donated a portion of our Pay to help with Fuel. Southwest Airlines Management Thanked us and Donated the money to Charity! We made it anyway in Spit of everything! Herb has Always Said Complacency will bring Southwest Airlines down

,
I here you 100%, you think I have reduced my career to a hire date , sorry that's not true. I do remember all the fear letters and when united threatened to take us out, one of the big reasons for our 700's. I remember the days when a 300 pulling up was a great day because I didn't have to work 10 hours on a 200 that smelt like sweat,smoke and a••.

I remember working 6-7 landings a day, 60-70 days in a row then take a day or two off and start at it again, you know why, because we got paid sh^×t but i enjoyed trying to earn a living at this airline, I remember the size of the mountain we climbed to get a leading contract and the 15 years + to get that, the same one soon up for negotiations


I remember it all very well and my memories and career are more than a seniority date. So thank you for this walk down memory lane and at this time I will take a deep breath and walk away from my computer to ....... to remember, lol

 

[POBIT]

Happy to see the results out so quickly. Im a little bummed about the mx control results. I feel that if they can bid mechanics positions, we should be able to bid theirs. maybe that can be negotiated in our next cba.

 

[MadMan337]

Happy to see the results out so quickly. Im a little bummed about the mx control results. I feel that if they can bid mechanics positions, we should be able to bid theirs. maybe that can be negotiated in our next cba.

They have no language in the current LOA that allows Mx Control to bid as a Mechanic or vice versa. They will not have those provisions until Sec 6 where it will provide the language for Mechanics and Mx Controllers bidding each others vacancies. Hopefully you didn't vote no because of that incorrect knowledge of the LOA.

 

[swamt]

Pobit, line guy, or MadMan,
Do either of you know what now happens with the DFW guys? Since this LOA was rejected, does this mean they bid into the AT system? Or will the company still bring them into DAL with day one senority? Some of the guys are under the impression that they will remain as day one employees, even if the senority agreement was to be accepted, since the DFW LOA was rejected. Maybe the company will give then an option to stay at DAL as day one employees or allow them to exercise their senority into the AT system? Just not quite sure what happens with them now that the DFW LOA was rejected. Anyone know the % of the votes? And the number of total votes tallied? Thanks to all who took the time to vote. One more to go next week.

 

[lineguy]

They have no language in the current LOA that allows Mx Control to bid as a Mechanic or vice versa. They will not have those provisions until Sec 6 where it will provide the language for Mechanics and Mx Controllers bidding each others vacancies. Hopefully you didn't vote no because of that incorrect knowledge of the LOA.

5. Article 9, Seniority, paragraph 2 shall be modified to read:
Mechanical Category – Shall include Employees in the classification of Inspector, Aircraft Mechanic, Ground Equipment Mechanic, Plant Maintenance Mechanic, Lead Mechanic and Lead Inspector where applicable, and Maintenance Controller and Lead Maintenance Controller. Notwithstanding the definition of seniority set forth above in this paragraph 2, those periods of time prior to March 2011 during which an Employee worked as a Maintenance Controller or Lead Maintenance Controller shall not be
included in determining such employee’s category seniority, provided, however, that an Employee working as a Maintenance Controller or Lead Maintenance Controller at Southwest Airlines as of March 2011 shall have their length of service in those positions counted towards their total classification seniority during such periods of time as they are working as a Maintenance Controller and/or Lead Maintenance Controller. Should such Employee subsequently bid a position within the category other than Maintenance Controller or Lead Maintenance Controller, time worked in either of those positions prior to March 2011 shall not to be included in determining such Employee’ category seniority.


Read the last sentence of paragraph 5. YOU are the one who has incorrect knowledge.

 

[MadMan337]

5. Article 9, Seniority, paragraph 2 shall be modified to read:
Mechanical Category – Shall include Employees in the classification of Inspector, Aircraft Mechanic, Ground Equipment Mechanic, Plant Maintenance Mechanic, Lead Mechanic and Lead Inspector where applicable, and Maintenance Controller and Lead Maintenance Controller. Notwithstanding the definition of seniority set forth above in this paragraph 2, those periods of time prior to March 2011 during which an Employee worked as a Maintenance Controller or Lead Maintenance Controller shall not be
included in determining such employee’s category seniority, provided, however, that an Employee working as a Maintenance Controller or Lead Maintenance Controller at Southwest Airlines as of March 2011 shall have their length of service in those positions counted towards their total classification seniority during such periods of time as they are working as a Maintenance Controller and/or Lead Maintenance Controller. Should such Employee subsequently bid a position within the category other than Maintenance Controller or Lead Maintenance Controller, time worked in either of those positions prior to March 2011 shall not to be included in determining such Employee’ category seniority.


Read the last sentence of paragraph 5. YOU are the one who has incorrect knowledge.

Below is where you would have read that Articles 5 and 10 are not included in the provisions that will apply to the Mx Controllers, those are the ones that pertain to bidding vacancies. The language you quoted pertains only to their seniority when they have the provisions to exercise it. Call your ALR and ask him.

b. In addition, the parties understand and agree that the following provisions of the Mechanics agreement shall be extended to include the Maintenance Controllers: Article 1, Purpose of the Agreement; Article 2, Scope of Agreement; Article 3, Status of the Agreement; Article 21, Grievance Procedure; Article 22, Arbitration; Article 24, General and Miscellaneous except for Paragraph 16; Article 25, Union Representation; and Article 26, Union Security. It being expressly understood by both parties that no other provisions of the Mechanics agreement shall be extended, pursuant to this Letter of Agreement, to include the Maintenance Controllers other than those listed above.

 

[MadMan337]

Pobit, line guy, or MadMan,
Do either of you know what now happens with the DFW guys? Since this LOA was rejected, does this mean they bid into the AT system? Or will the company still bring them into DAL with day one senority? Some of the guys are under the impression that they will remain as day one employees, even if the senority agreement was to be accepted, since the DFW LOA was rejected. Maybe the company will give then an option to stay at DAL as day one employees or allow them to exercise their senority into the AT system? Just not quite sure what happens with them now that the DFW LOA was rejected. Anyone know the % of the votes? And the number of total votes tallied? Thanks to all who took the time to vote. One more to go next week.

The Company has been extremely quiet about what the DFW guys are doing currently or where they are working. I do know they want them to stay in DAL if possible. I would guess they may try to find temp supervisor duties for them in maintenance somewhere off the hangar floor. That's only a guess. Someone should just ask Jim S.

 

[lineguy]

Below is where you would have read that Articles 5 and 10 are not included in the provisions that will apply to the Mx Controllers, those are the ones that pertain to bidding vacancies. The language you quoted pertains only to their seniority when they have the provisions to exercise it. Call your ALR and ask him.

b. In addition, the parties understand and agree that the following provisions of the Mechanics agreement shall be extended to include the Maintenance Controllers: Article 1, Purpose of the Agreement; Article 2, Scope of Agreement; Article 3, Status of the Agreement; Article 21, Grievance Procedure; Article 22, Arbitration; Article 24, General and Miscellaneous except for Paragraph 16; Article 25, Union Representation; and Article 26, Union Security. It being expressly understood by both parties that no other provisions of the Mechanics agreement shall be extended, pursuant to this Letter of Agreement, to include the Maintenance Controllers other than those listed above.

It clearly says, "should a mx controller bid another position in the catagory". That is what is written. Now if it don't mean what it says, well, it should state clearly what it is intended to mean. It either means they can bid or will be able to at a later date. Abiguity is just another good reason to vote no.

 

[AvTech04]

Below is where you would have read that Articles 5 and 10 are not included in the provisions that will apply to the Mx Controllers, those are the ones that pertain to bidding vacancies. The language you quoted pertains only to their seniority when they have the provisions to exercise it. Call your ALR and ask him.

b. In addition, the parties understand and agree that the following provisions of the Mechanics agreement shall be extended to include the Maintenance Controllers: Article 1, Purpose of the Agreement; Article 2, Scope of Agreement; Article 3, Status of the Agreement; Article 21, Grievance Procedure; Article 22, Arbitration; Article 24, General and Miscellaneous except for Paragraph 16; Article 25, Union Representation; and Article 26, Union Security. It being expressly understood by both parties that no other provisions of the Mechanics agreement shall be extended, pursuant to this Letter of Agreement, to include the Maintenance Controllers other than those listed above.

You have 2 contradicting articles in these last 2 posts. From the sounds of it. I would grieve for clarification and intent.. Lineguys' post clearly states how they can exercise their seniority outside of MX control, as of May 2011, in what appears to be article 5, but Madman's post doesn't list article 5 to the Mx controllers.. It may be an error you guys have found, either way I'd get immediate clarification of the contradiction.

 

[swamt]

AvTech04;
What is your true feelings on how the IBT is going to handle this up-coming nego. if this senority/trans agreements are voted down by the SWA/AMFA mechanics? Do you really feel that the IBT is going to push this thing into arbitration? Or are they in fact just chest pumping in order to try and intimidate the AMFA group into "hopefully" agreeing to this first offer of integration agreement? Just wondering if they are still in fact holding out just because they are holding a huge grudge against AMFA and the SWA mechanics? If this is so, I feel completely sorry for all the mechanic and related at AT. Would be great to see them back at the table (if this is voted down) to try and truely work this out prior to arbitration, as we all agree, would hate to see a third party make final for all. As I stated before, this is all contingent on the SWA/AMFA members voting this down, although I highly doubt it, the AT guys could vote it down as well. Are the AT mechanics willing to look at temp fences, dropping them, or a cut in senority rather than a boost in SWA's senority? Just looking for a possible last resort before going to arbitration. I know what you have posted in the past on your options, but just currious about the rest of the AT mechanics in general.

 

[swaboeingonly]

2 SWA mechanics returned from ATL and said they talked with several AT mechanics and they feel as we do. To quote 'we don't want fences, just a 1 time hit and move on'. The 2 SWA AMT's said that the people were all very friendly and want too get this over with and start working as 1. Just passing on in case anyone is interested.

 

[at03]

AvTech04;
What is your true feelings on how the IBT is going to handle this up-coming nego. if this senority/trans agreements are voted down by the SWA/AMFA mechanics? Do you really feel that the IBT is going to push this thing into arbitration? Or are they in fact just chest pumping in order to try and intimidate the AMFA group into "hopefully" agreeing to this first offer of integration agreement? Just wondering if they are still in fact holding out just because they are holding a huge grudge against AMFA and the SWA mechanics? If this is so, I feel completely sorry for all the mechanic and related at AT. Would be great to see them back at the table (if this is voted down) to try and truely work this out prior to arbitration, as we all agree, would hate to see a third party make final for all. As I stated before, this is all contingent on the SWA/AMFA members voting this down, although I highly doubt it, the AT guys could vote it down as well. Are the AT mechanics willing to look at temp fences, dropping them, or a cut in senority rather than a boost in SWA's senority? Just looking for a possible last resort before going to arbitration. I know what you have posted in the past on your options, but just currious about the rest of the AT mechanics in general.

From my understanding if/when this is voted down they are filing for arbitration to get the process started. I don't know if they will or won't go back to the table while they wait. I don't think anybody wants the fences, but they don't want 70% either.