bagtag
Newbie
This is probably why they dont want to give us anything.....but its funny
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0RSGaELp-FU
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0RSGaELp-FU
IBEW Update
- Thread starter Tim Nelson
- Start date
- Status
Labor Dawg
Advanced
Golden I want a top out rate of 23.00 to 25.00.
I want sick time full pay and for them to do away with the occurrences. If the contract says you get 7 sick days a year then you should be able to take seven day if you are sick. If you have more in the bank then you should be able to use them or sell them back at the end of the year. The current way they do things is crazy. If I am sick then I have to take a minimum of 2 days. Most people take more only because they have no choice. The company forces you into a corner with corporal punishment.
How about unlimited swaps for those who have sacrificed for this company. They have uprooted their selves to keep a job they love and need to commute back and forth to their families.
401k match of up to 8%.
How about a decent pension plan that is secure and they can't skip payments to them without penalties.
How about a better choice in insurance. With a reasonable co-pay.
How about better language no more "when the company deems necessary".
I would have liked a Union to say we have a good case and we will move forward on the COC.
I don't want a union to give away all of my profit sharing. They were ready to rip the profit sharing off our backs! Much like the skin being ripped off.
Don't allow the company to bully you into the corner when in negs.
How about the union working for the members and not the other way around. If you invest into the membership they will in turn invest into the union. Right now they have a free pass to take everything they want to because they have it set up against the membership! The checks and balances have been destroyed by the bylaws in the IAM.
I would like to see an employee that is forced to work overtime to be rewarded properly. That means if they make or ask you to stay after you reg 8 hrs. You should get paid 4 at time and a half and the rest double time. If we go back to that they won't have a problem with getting people to stay when they need them. If you stay past 8hrs on your first day you should be on double time.
I want a thirty year employee to have a min. of 5 weeks of vacation. I want an option on holidays. I want it to be either the pay or vacation days for my paid holidays.
I want there to be an appropriate bumping rights so if the company is in a situation they will allow people to use their seniority. Seniority should never be screwed with. Remember if you are junior now you will one day be senior and it is the one thing you should look forward to.
I want someone to respect this group. The company and the IAM continually tell us we are unskilled. The fact that we have to take tons of test every year to stay qualified to work on the ramp is and example of being skilled. How about the fact that we put numbers into a computer to ensure the proper weights and balances. How about the fact that the F/S has steadily had more and more responsibility added to their job description. How about the fact that we do air starts, electric starts, and push backs. If we are so unskilled why would you put guys in charge of pushing multi million dollar aircraft? We as the front line soldiers and work in all types of weather. We in most situations like in PHL have to improvise when working because the airline doesn't care if we have broken equipment Need I go on my friend. If you can say I'm wrong on this list I can certainly give you more. I just don't want to take up the whole page.
I want sick time full pay and for them to do away with the occurrences. If the contract says you get 7 sick days a year then you should be able to take seven day if you are sick. If you have more in the bank then you should be able to use them or sell them back at the end of the year. The current way they do things is crazy. If I am sick then I have to take a minimum of 2 days. Most people take more only because they have no choice. The company forces you into a corner with corporal punishment.
How about unlimited swaps for those who have sacrificed for this company. They have uprooted their selves to keep a job they love and need to commute back and forth to their families.
401k match of up to 8%.
How about a decent pension plan that is secure and they can't skip payments to them without penalties.
How about a better choice in insurance. With a reasonable co-pay.
How about better language no more "when the company deems necessary".
I would have liked a Union to say we have a good case and we will move forward on the COC.
I don't want a union to give away all of my profit sharing. They were ready to rip the profit sharing off our backs! Much like the skin being ripped off.
Don't allow the company to bully you into the corner when in negs.
How about the union working for the members and not the other way around. If you invest into the membership they will in turn invest into the union. Right now they have a free pass to take everything they want to because they have it set up against the membership! The checks and balances have been destroyed by the bylaws in the IAM.
I would like to see an employee that is forced to work overtime to be rewarded properly. That means if they make or ask you to stay after you reg 8 hrs. You should get paid 4 at time and a half and the rest double time. If we go back to that they won't have a problem with getting people to stay when they need them. If you stay past 8hrs on your first day you should be on double time.
I want a thirty year employee to have a min. of 5 weeks of vacation. I want an option on holidays. I want it to be either the pay or vacation days for my paid holidays.
I want there to be an appropriate bumping rights so if the company is in a situation they will allow people to use their seniority. Seniority should never be screwed with. Remember if you are junior now you will one day be senior and it is the one thing you should look forward to.
I want someone to respect this group. The company and the IAM continually tell us we are unskilled. The fact that we have to take tons of test every year to stay qualified to work on the ramp is and example of being skilled. How about the fact that we put numbers into a computer to ensure the proper weights and balances. How about the fact that the F/S has steadily had more and more responsibility added to their job description. How about the fact that we do air starts, electric starts, and push backs. If we are so unskilled why would you put guys in charge of pushing multi million dollar aircraft? We as the front line soldiers and work in all types of weather. We in most situations like in PHL have to improvise when working because the airline doesn't care if we have broken equipment Need I go on my friend. If you can say I'm wrong on this list I can certainly give you more. I just don't want to take up the whole page.
Labor Dawg
Advanced
700 that statement is just why the rest of us know that you are in the IAM stable! How about doing what a union is supposed to do! That is to ask for something high and except something in the reasonable area. You know the company comes in and low balls everything. I don't necessary think that 23-25 dollars and hour by the end of the contract is unreasonable. However when you go in willing to give up stuff for the group so you can get for the IAM AGCs and union leaders! You have forgotten your responsibilities,[ if you are an IAM official]. I have heard all of your answers and I am sure you believe them to be true, but by your own admission you don't work the ramp. So let ramp people deal with their futures and you deal with your future. The IAM went in and let the company push them into a corner and they gave up COC and the profit sharing [like it was theirs to give anyway ]! Which should have never been in the T/A! The sad thing is that T/A would have probably been voted in if they would have left the profit sharing in and let justices prevail.
Labor Dawg
Advanced
700 No SH*t dude. When is it our turn to take?!? We have given for 13 years with this weak a** union. They came in giving things up. Like the unlimited swaps. It may not be a big deal to you but it is to those who commute! Oh yeah they don't count because they chose to commute! Right 700! The people that work the ramp deserve better than this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
oncearound
Member
- Jul 22, 2005
- 36
- 0
Geez Dawg, What about a pot of gold every time we show up to work too? Don't you think they asked for most of that and more? Didn't you read the proposals the IAM gave the company? You guys seem to have just looked at the company's best and final offer. IAM didn't write that, the company did. The IAM said they thought it was worth a vote, they gave us the ball at that point. They were at the end, before COC. You would have been pissed off if IAM made that decision for you and turned it down. You would have yelled and screamed if you didn't have a say. They gave you a choice. I never heard anyone say the COC was a slam dunk. We made the choice. We will have to see what happens now. The company is just eating this division up! We look weak because of it. You IBEW guys are doing us no favors.
Labor Dawg
Advanced
oncearound You sound much like your name. This union has a habit of giving things up. I really don't believe they went in there and demanded the things I mentioned! If the COC isn't such a slam dunk why put it in the T/A? If you want to continue to set back and let the likes the IAM continue to allow the company rape us. Then by all means do that but don't deny those who want change, because we are entitled to be angry. We are entitled to seek self-help if the people we have paid millions to represent us have fallen to sleep at the wheel! We only want what is due to us. Why is it we can never open contracts when the company is making hugh profits, but when they run the company into the ground they can open the contracts.
Make no mistakes the management of this company has on at least five occasions tried to run this company in the ground and continue to do so. They changed over a computer system that is not used by the Star Alliance. They bought millions of aircraft only to change that direction. They did the metro-jet that lost money. They did the business select. They were going to make Dulles a focus city only to shut that down. They were going to make FLL a focus city for the Carribean. Oh and lets not forget how bad they have screwed the state of PA. By the way that is starting to come back and haunt them!
Don't make it like we are the ones that are fleecing this company. We are respectable hard working employees and need to be treated as such. As for the IBEW comment since when is it that we can't demand more of the people that represent us. We have the right to seek out someone who can bring a fresh new approach to the table. Maybe you are an IAM loyalist, but I am not! The problem with you and a few others is you guys want to take away options from the group. That is why we are loosing ground to the labor movement. The IAM has no checks and balances. They refuse to listen to this group and now they are going to pay the price. They have lost 70,000 plus jobs in the past five years. Why is that if they are such a good union? The problem is they need to change with the times and hold the companies more accountable to the workforce!
Make no mistakes the management of this company has on at least five occasions tried to run this company in the ground and continue to do so. They changed over a computer system that is not used by the Star Alliance. They bought millions of aircraft only to change that direction. They did the metro-jet that lost money. They did the business select. They were going to make Dulles a focus city only to shut that down. They were going to make FLL a focus city for the Carribean. Oh and lets not forget how bad they have screwed the state of PA. By the way that is starting to come back and haunt them!
Don't make it like we are the ones that are fleecing this company. We are respectable hard working employees and need to be treated as such. As for the IBEW comment since when is it that we can't demand more of the people that represent us. We have the right to seek out someone who can bring a fresh new approach to the table. Maybe you are an IAM loyalist, but I am not! The problem with you and a few others is you guys want to take away options from the group. That is why we are loosing ground to the labor movement. The IAM has no checks and balances. They refuse to listen to this group and now they are going to pay the price. They have lost 70,000 plus jobs in the past five years. Why is that if they are such a good union? The problem is they need to change with the times and hold the companies more accountable to the workforce!
JoeDirt
Veteran
- Sep 1, 2007
- 840
- 3
Labor Dawg
What is my value?........I agree with most every point you make. My experience on the ramp is valuable. I want to relate a story. A lot of Rampers can tell their own. I will try to make it as short as possible. Someone put a value on this.
A while back I was the counter(load master or what every it is called in your station) on a SAN bound flight. As I was parking the A/C (A321) I noticed a trail of fluid coming from #2 engine. By the time it shut down the pool was the size of a dinner plate. I told my lead, he called the tower, and they called maintance. We unloaded the plane and waited for maintance. This was a very hot summer day and by the time the mechanic came to look the pool of fuel had evaporated. He checked the log book and saw a write up for a leak on #2. He told the lead to go ahead and load the plane. There seemed to be no major problem. I refused until I could talk to the mechanic. I personally knew this mechanic. Told him of my concerns. Because of our working together for years he listened to what I had to say. He decided to run the engine up. Within 30 seconds the fuel began pouring out of the bottom of the engine. I'm not sure what was the problem. He said something about the fuel line. The plane was repaired, we loaded it up and sent it on its way. Afterwards he came up to me and told me good call and thanks.
My experience as a Ramper has value. Dawg just hit on a few of the reasons in his post above. There are a lot of reasons you want a seasoned "Ramp Rat".
What is my value?........I agree with most every point you make. My experience on the ramp is valuable. I want to relate a story. A lot of Rampers can tell their own. I will try to make it as short as possible. Someone put a value on this.
A while back I was the counter(load master or what every it is called in your station) on a SAN bound flight. As I was parking the A/C (A321) I noticed a trail of fluid coming from #2 engine. By the time it shut down the pool was the size of a dinner plate. I told my lead, he called the tower, and they called maintance. We unloaded the plane and waited for maintance. This was a very hot summer day and by the time the mechanic came to look the pool of fuel had evaporated. He checked the log book and saw a write up for a leak on #2. He told the lead to go ahead and load the plane. There seemed to be no major problem. I refused until I could talk to the mechanic. I personally knew this mechanic. Told him of my concerns. Because of our working together for years he listened to what I had to say. He decided to run the engine up. Within 30 seconds the fuel began pouring out of the bottom of the engine. I'm not sure what was the problem. He said something about the fuel line. The plane was repaired, we loaded it up and sent it on its way. Afterwards he came up to me and told me good call and thanks.
My experience as a Ramper has value. Dawg just hit on a few of the reasons in his post above. There are a lot of reasons you want a seasoned "Ramp Rat".
orioleman
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2007
- 1,669
- 64
once
"Didn't you read the proposals the IAM gave the company? "
this is a joke right.. To my knowledge I haven't ever seen in WRITING any proposals the IAM has made.. You must be in the inner circle.. Congrats for that ..
They neg behind closed and securely locked doors so that no one will walk in on the F/*=ing going on..
and they don't give out any details. until they threw a rag of a t/a.. Thats our updates..
that way there is no accountability on there part
"Didn't you read the proposals the IAM gave the company? "
this is a joke right.. To my knowledge I haven't ever seen in WRITING any proposals the IAM has made.. You must be in the inner circle.. Congrats for that ..
They neg behind closed and securely locked doors so that no one will walk in on the F/*=ing going on..
and they don't give out any details. until they threw a rag of a t/a.. Thats our updates..
that way there is no accountability on there part
oncearound
Member
- Jul 22, 2005
- 36
- 0
Dawg, What I said was I didn't think you read the proposals the IAM made during negotiations. They asked for a lot of what you mentioned. COC was a 50/50 chance according to IAM, that's what they told us. They used that as leverage. I don't see it as the union letting the company rape us. What I saw was the IAM fighting for what we asked for. We are our own worst enemy, with this bickering. I am certainly not denying anyone the right to a change. We are all angry and have the right to be. I am no IAM loyalist, never wanted the IAM to begin with! Not sure why you would say the company is trying to run itself in the ground. What purpose would that serve? No ones. They are making money and that's what we all want! We all just want to make money, a LOT more than we are making! If the company's not making money we wouldn't be making money or working! As much as we don't like it, we don't run the company or make their decisions. I really hate that! I'd love to make all the decisions! Wouldn't we all? LOL Not sure what you mean when you said we can't open contracts. Maybe I'm just stupid, but it seems to me that you need to wait and go by the law as to when a contract is amendable. We are not in sec 6, former HP employees are though. I NEVER said we are trying to fleece the company. That's just silly. We all want a just and livable wage, proper treatment, and working conditions. We are ALL working our butts off trying to survive. I am NOT trying to take away options from us. I just think this is a bad time to show the company we are divided. Strength in numbers! Where did I say IAM is such a good union?!? They are all the same. We will never be totally happy with one. It is all about timing. This is a bad time. By the way I don't see where or when IAM has refused to listen. They asked for input before this TA stuff started. I gave mine did you? Or did you jump on this when the TA came out? I'm doing nothing to stop you guys. Just wish you IBEW/Teamsters, whoever's popular at the moment, supporters would state correct facts. I might be a ramper, but it doesn't make me ignorant. I understand labor law, and I understand what's going on. I'm not going to follow whoever screams the loudest. I'm going to form my opinions on facts. Not what I read on here. This is always interesting, but not always factual.
OP
Tim Nelson
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #132
Joe,
I agree you have value, but your value is measured better when you measure 'our' value. What I'm saying is that the value of 8,000 workers is much greater than the value of one. In this sense, the IAM has negotiated based on the value of one, from there you get the name calling like 'bag ape' and 'you're lucky to have an IAM job'.
When the IAM sez "You" they are talking to 'each' member [singular] . Hemmingway also looks at 'each' ramper and negotiates from there since he has no reason to recognize 8,000 rampers collectively. OTOH, if 8,000 workers were engaged and did what they had to do to support the masses then your company would recognize just how big that bag ape really is. Unfortunately, Fleet service, especially the west, will experience great 'pain' until they eliminate the IAM. The west are getting so hoodwinked that they just got bypassed again as the IAM just appointed 3 more east siders on the district level with the west siders dues, to make sure no westies would be represented on the district level. What's painfully odd is that the westies bent over and allowed this so they can expect no representation indefinately with the IAm.
regards,
OP
Tim Nelson
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #133
I've heard this before over at the wimpy center where they teach this. It's a philosphy that is flat out wrong from the getgo. Certainly there was give and take in the last contract. The problem was that your company is near record profits. This is the time of reaping, this is the harvest of why you have a union. Not to screw around and cough up things that you will never get again in a contract.
regards,
AAA73Pilot
Veteran
- Jul 18, 2007
- 1,513
- 0
I agree. It's so obvious, the employees are just treated as a necessary expense.
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