IBEW UPDATE 11Nov-

[Tim Nelson]

Show me one union at any legacy that has taken concessions that has gotten anything fair and equatable since 9/11?

700UW, do you think the IAM listens?

regards,

 

[700UW]

It is only as good as the membership, some of the leadership listens some dont.

But as you know membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems.

Are you going to answer the statement you quoted?

Do you think the IBEW is going to walk in and wave a magic wand and force Hemenway to relent?

It reminds me of your first ratified CBA, some fleet were asking why does M&R have this, why do they have that and fleet doesnt.

I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted.

 

[redeye]

It is only as good as the membership, some of the leadership listens some dont.

But as you know membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems.

Are you going to answer the statement you quoted?

Do you think the IBEW is going to walk in and wave a magic wand and force Hemenway to relent?

It reminds me of your first ratified CBA, some fleet were asking why does M&R have this, why do they have that and fleet doesnt.

I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted.

700,

You make a good point that it takes time to make a contract with
good language. How many Unions would find it acceptable to allow
a duration of 10 years from the signing of the first contract to the
opening of negotiations for only the second time? If the TA was signed
you could have extended that another three.
How can you expect a generation of workers to endorse the capability
of a representational group that shows up at the plate twice from hire to retire?

 

[diogenes]

It is only as good as the membership, some of the leadership listens some dont.

But as you know membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems.

Are you going to answer the statement you quoted?

Do you think the IBEW is going to walk in and wave a magic wand and force Hemenway to relent?

It reminds me of your first ratified CBA, some fleet were asking why does M&R have this, why do they have that and fleet doesnt.

I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted.

That doesn't cut it. There were worlds of difference in M&R's leeway to enforce their contract, and how fleet enforced theirs, even though the language in both contracts was identical.

M&R stewards and committeemen had no problem getting time off to investigate and prepare grievances. Not so for fleet service, even though the contract language was the same.

M&R had no problem sending their folks to educational sessions. Not so for fleet.

I could go on, but you get the gist.

Plus, I distinctly remember the strengh-in-numbers campaign BS. IAM certainly never disclosed this:

"I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted."

until after they were voted in.

Deceptive? You be the judge.

 

[mike33]

As an america West employee, I think more than anything, it's about the fact that our representation let us down by not con't sec 6. I haven't heard ANYTHING from them even mentioning sec 6. It's as though they didn't think we knew about it because we're a young unionized work force and it was our first contract. My god. who would ever throw away the ACE of SPADES( sec 6 ). They had the perfect opportunity....Now we got D..K

Yeah, Mr C says we went for CIC with our TA vote...What he forgot to say was the west was in sec 6 and we are persuing that for BROTHERS and SISTERS at America West......Call this airlines any name you want but according to contractual logic it's still US/HP.


It's a fake Certificate
and the industry knows it...............///////////////

sunofsamsonite..........just venting....again

 

[perserverance]

It is only as good as the membership, some of the leadership listens some dont.

But as you know membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems.

I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted.

I agree with the first two statements, but remember the current leadership comes from the
membership. Thus, the apathy created comes from three sources ; company, membership,
and leadership (also part of the membership in defintion only).

I'll also agree somewhat with the third statement, so with that, can I have someone deliver me
that long awaited , everything we deserve, contract to my grave site or my home if I'm still alive
and have a pension, in 2046. Remember this pension is going South.

We need our own voice, we need our own union, the pilots realized this, so must we..
IBEW.

Thanks

 

[The Bagfather]

It is only as good as the membership, some of the leadership listens some dont.

But as you know membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems.

Are you going to answer the statement you quoted?

Do you think the IBEW is going to walk in and wave a magic wand and force Hemenway to relent?

It reminds me of your first ratified CBA, some fleet were asking why does M&R have this, why do they have that and fleet doesnt.

I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted.

700. A union has the responsiblity of leadership. If the membeership is appathetic
then the union has the responsibility to change that. If they themselves are appathitic
it becomes impossible.

Is that why they shot so low in the TA" Because they thought the workforce was
appathetic? That TA encouiraged appathy. We need a union who is capable of
educating and uniting this work force. I don't think in black or white terms so me
it's a matter of degree. I just add up all the evidence and have concluded that
our relation to the IAM is beyond repair. Thanks

 

[pjirish317]

So lets everybody sign a card for the IBEW. If they "Don't matter" Tell the I AM MANAGEMENT loyalists sign one. To prove that they are actually worthless. Lets band together folks. We need the IBEW more than the IBEW needs us. Sign a card.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It is only as good as the membership, some of the leadership listens some dont.

But as you know membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems.

Are you going to answer the statement you quoted?

Do you think the IBEW is going to walk in and wave a magic wand and force Hemenway to relent?

It reminds me of your first ratified CBA, some fleet were asking why does M&R have this, why do they have that and fleet doesnt.

I tried to explain the M&R has been under IAM representation since 1949, 50 years when your group ratified, I explained to them it was 50 years of negotiations that we got what we had and no union can walk in and get a group everything they wanted.

700, these issues are not so complicated.

Item 1:
Although my bud perseverance agreed with your first two statements, I find no truth in them. Your statement, "The union is only as good as the membership" is akin to its brother, "The union is you". Unions made those two statements up themselves but both statements are nonsensical rhetoric. The IAM is the legal participant that has the power to either oppress and muzzle, or solicit and engage fleet service participation. The situation is the equivalent to a jockey and a horse. The horse could be a winner but if the jockey is holding back the reins because of a payoff then the horse will finish wherever the institutions want it to. In essance, the IAM has had a solid horse but the leadership has made whore & piss clam deals and have held back the reins by not supporting any participation of fleet service. This is what is happening for sure. If I were to use a slogan I would conter your rhetoric with "Everything either rises and falls because of leadership." I don't like that statement but I think it fits the context of this discussion.

The argument against my position is what you advocated and said, "membership apathy is the cause of most of the problems. In this case, that certainly isn't the problem. Apathy is what you and the IAM are trying to fashion the appearance of. Ironically, the opposite is true in regards to Fleet service. The contract vote was voted down by 65% as 57% of the entire membership voted. This participation was incredible. As you may be aware with your expert IAM leadership college credits, participation in contracts that are deemed 'non-critical', i.e., those that are not 12th hour and those that don't involve a strike or other moment of decision, usually get way below 50% participation. The facts that you fail to acknowledge are foundational and useful in good conversation, but your ommision of them pursuade me to believe you either have a hate or an agenda of further oppression towards fleet service. Fleet service is as unified and solid as it has ever been before. Even the west/east gap is lessoning. FLeet service is ready to rock against the oppressive powers that are but the IAM has failed to call the shot and instead has held back the reins on a very good horse. 99% of fleet service knows this although they may not know how to express it, they feel it. It was the feeling that most of the yes and no voters had during the last contract vote.

Item 2: 700 sez, "IBEW going to shake a majic wand?"
Nobody expects a majic wand. Those are things made up in fairy tales only. In keeping with the metaphor of the jockey, I would say that the IBEW is the idea and hope of having a new jockey that will participate in actions that will get the horse to participate like it ought to, as opposed to pulling back the reins. Both 'actions' produce known and predictable outcomes. In reality, Hemmingway is no different from other company guys at any company. Justice over oppression is a result of fighting for what is right. There has been no fight, thus, one should expect unfairness to continue. Fleet service has been ready to engage.

Item 3:
The fact that fleet service has had the IAM only 13 years is irrelevant to justice and what is deserved or what could be obtained. Certainly justice isn't a respector of 'tenure'. OTOH, the IAM respects tenure and has its favorite children. The IAM is a good union at Boeing, not bad at United, but is horrible at Fleet USair. I think the metaphor, 'red headed step child' fits with what I am trying to convey.

regards,

 

[Jester]

Freedom,

I am having a difficult time understanding your love for the IAM, especially any of the Westies.

Ronald Reagan once asked during a Presidential debate, "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" While four years might seem to be an exaggeration to for us today, maybe two years ago? Do you see any improvement within two more years? The IAM has done NOTHING for West, except to link us with East and their on-going problems with CIC to our detriment as West is a tool for the IAM and nothing more.

West has been neglected by the IAM (and the Company, btw) as when it serves their purpose we are One Big Happy Family and then other times we are two different organizations working under different contracts. You think that's right? You think that's proper representation? You find that acceptable? It is time for the IAM apologists to wake up and realize the IAM needs to be FIRED!


In general, I am becoming increasing annoyed with placing the blame upon the rank and file for the IAM's failures with the mentality, "any union is only as good as the membership." Excuse me? That's called a "fiduciary responsiblity" for which if someone has been entrusted and is being paid for their expertise and ethical conduct in managing the affairs of another party. So between our two jobs and family, I am to be a watch dog to the IAM who has neglected it's responsiblities? Screw that! Dump them, just as quickly as one should fire an investment advisor, an attorney, or an accountant who fails in their own fiduciary responsibilities. Isn't this one of the arguments for having an union, so that average worker may have expert and experienced representation in the workplace? Has the IAM done this?

It is the job of Boss Canale and his cronies to keep us informed through MEANINGFUL discourse and information instead of the occasional rehash of nothing to report on the website and the monthly cat litter liner (The Messenger) which is more akin to a progaganda cheerleading exercise than something of any practical value. It should not be for us to push them to the brink of being canned before they begin to act, and better yet have co-workers blame the rank and file for allowing them to do this! How has the victim become the one to blame for the acts of the criminal or at least, the criminally negligent?

Dump the IAM like a lav truck and let's get some decent representation!

So speaks Jester.

 

[pjirish317]

Dump the IAM like a lav truck and let's get some decent representation!

So speaks Jester.

AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!

 

[Labor Dawg]

700 You said this"Show me one union at any legacy that has taken concessions that has gotten anything fair and equatable since 9/11?" I agree with that statement, however we are not dealing with 9/11. We are dealing with a company that is having record profits and they refuse to reward the very employees that have sacraficed for the company! I am very sure you still have something to do with the IAM. I really don't care. The one thing I do care about is the fact that the IAM is still misrepresenting the group. There was no reason the coc or the profit sharing should have been in the T/A. The sad thing is that T/A may well have gone thru if those things were not in it. The bottom line is that the IAM should be gone. People need to wake up and smell the coffee. The IAM has threatened people, they have basically screwed the entire group except the ones they anoint. This is the whole problem with the AFL-CIO also. They let guys like Canale get involved and they fight more over how to spend dues money instead of trying to grow the labor movement! At the rate we are going the union movement could be down below 5% in 2015. That is crazy! I really hope the IBEW makes a strong statement with this group, because if they do look out IAM you will loose more members.

 

[Tim Nelson]

700 You said this"Show me one union at any legacy that has taken concessions that has gotten anything fair and equatable since 9/11?" I agree with that statement, however we are not dealing with 9/11. We are dealing with a company that is having record profits and they refuse to reward the very employees that have sacraficed for the company! I am very sure you still have something to do with the IAM. I really don't care. The one thing I do care about is the fact that the IAM is still misrepresenting the group. There was no reason the coc or the profit sharing should have been in the T/A. The sad thing is that T/A may well have gone thru if those things were not in it. The bottom line is that the IAM should be gone. People need to wake up and smell the coffee. The IAM has threatened people, they have basically screwed the entire group except the ones they anoint. This is the whole problem with the AFL-CIO also. They let guys like Canale get involved and they fight more over how to spend dues money instead of trying to grow the labor movement! At the rate we are going the union movement could be down below 5% in 2015. That is crazy! I really hope the IBEW makes a strong statement with this group, because if they do look out IAM you will loose more members.

I'll be interested to see what the IBEW's decision is. 3400 cards in 5 weeks was incredible. Labor Dawg or Perseverance, did everyone mail the cards in yet?
I think everyone knows that if the IBEW sez "Game on" then that means "Game Over" for the I Am Management piss whore.

regards,

 

[lithuanian]

You guys are"Hell Bent". O.K. We agree you have the cards, Yippee! Now, lets see if the real players for IBEW realize the "dirty work" you guys did. This is exactly the way Mafia work! Funny. It hasn't changed since Capone.

 

[Labor Dawg]

Lith The Ibew has more than 38% to 41% of the cards signed and they are still going strong. The IBEW will be getting the cards soon. The IBEW has gotten cards from hubs as well as class two cities that want a real change and some respect for their hard work. Don't think for a minute that this is false we are just being responsible. Just keep telling yourself this is a nightmare and when you wake up it will have been a awesome dream. Maybe you will stop supporting a union that really has done nothing for the east [for 13 years] and for the west [for 18 months]. This is not a falsehood this is fact! If Brinkner was so great why hasn't he been involved before now? Could it be that he is now seeing things develope into a real chance of the IAM getting the boot? Guys like him are like roaches when the light comes on they scatter. If he was so concerned then why did he not address Randy. This didn't just happen yesterday.
Randy is on the board of United and they have been having meetings with Dougie in ORD! THis tells me he is not concerned about the USAirways guys he is trying to help set up a merger and selling us down the road. Randy forgot where he came from. He is a bag thrower from PHL and he has done nothing for the fleet service employees at USAirways.

Go IBEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!