IBEW UPDATE 11Nov-

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

I wouldn’t hold your breath for an appearance of Ron on here . Somehow I get the feeling that he doesn’t do debates with nameless faceless individuals , I of course don’t mean that in a rude way to any of you, because I myself am in the same boat , but that’s just the way he is I think . He’s more of a face to face or over the phone type of person , at least so I gather .

I'm not asking him to come on and debate, I would just like him to come in here and explain in depth, with facts, why the IBEW isn't going to work. We have heard that the president of IBEW isn't going to accept our cards, and these activities aren't sanctioned, now it's time to hear WHY. It's also time to hear who put this all together, and why this person felt it nessecary to go behind the presidents back and conduct a campaign against his will.

I don't know. It all sounds to me like this is the will of a few individuals and it's not going to play out. :down:

Nobody on either side of the ticket is giving good answers. In Phoenix, the IBEW has been just as silent as the IAM, and we all feel there is no reason to support a campaign that will probably favor the EAST more then the WEST.

edit-

And to his credit, Ron Roth has been forthcoming with more and more union updates since there's been more chatter. He has requested that he be given a greater roll in the union activities, and wants to get PHX more involved with the decision making. It's a bit late but now we really really need a voice, and I commend him for wanting to step up and take action on the matter. In all fairness, nobody in PHX ever spoke of union matters, and he can only go with what we are giving him. Now we are talking, now he will listen. I don't want to be at the mercy of some campaign put together by a few east rampers. Sorry

 

[perserverance]

Po'd- If the IBEW decides to continue then they would be more than happy to debate
Ron, in Phx in front of his members that he represents. The last time the IBEW
went to Clt they asked thier local leader for that opportunity and he declined. I'm
glad to hear your leadership would welcome that chance. As far as him stating
that the IBEW is done, that is false for now. It may end up being true but as of
now it is false. I'd ask Ron to sign a card if he feels they mean nothing, my feeling
is he won't.


Brothres ans Sisters- It had already been posted that the IBEW has ''paused'' the financial
backing til they have an accurate count of the cards currently signed. I'm sure a
decision will be made soon. To whoever suggested that the IBEW is dividing the
work group, really, c'mon we've had ''A'' scale vs. ''B''scale, ''FT'' vs. ''PT'' , ''Union''
vs. ''Non Union'', and now ''East''vs. ''West''...we need ''Us'' vs. ''Our Leadership''.
They created 3 of the 4 rifts. We need to comprehend how little the IAM values
this work group, ''the fleet'. Let M&R see a proposal, apparently thier benifits
are based on what we accept........ooohhh add ''fleet'' vs. ''M&R'', thats' 4 out of 5.


Thanks

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

This is what i'm talking about pers- WHO in IBEW are you talking about? According to RR, it isn't the PRESIDENT. Who went to CLT and got turned down for a debate? Maybe they turned it down because it wouldn't have been a legit debate.

I'm just sayin if I were the president of a company, and my people went around campaigning against my will, I would fire them.

I'm not trying to contridict any of you and your hard efforts, but these are the issues that confuse people and divide us!

That and I think both sides chose to give us information at an opportune moment. Why should we trust either union?

 

[mike33]

[quote name='PO'ed PHX Ramper' date='Nov 14 2007, 11:20 AM' post='543639']
This is what i'm talking about pers- WHO in IBEW are you talking about? According to RR, it isn't the PRESIDENT. Who went to CLT and got turned down for a debate? Maybe they turned it down because it wouldn't have been a legit debate.

I'm just sayin if I were the president of a company, and my people went around campaigning against my will, I would fire them.

I'm not trying to contridict any of you and your hard efforts, but these are the issues that confuse people and divide us!

That and I think both sides chose to give us information at an opportune moment. Why should we trust either union?
[/quote

You have to choose one. That's what this is all about. You don't throw $$ at a campaign and endure fines,( whatever they might be. I don't know) UNLESS YOU CAN ENSURE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE MEMBERSHIP WANTS CHANGE. We will see what we will see. You might be right, I DON'T KNOW, but it's worth it if the majority say so. Don't tell me I don't want to hear the truth. I AM ENDURNG THE TRUTH NOW. This company and union AT THE TOP care nothing about us.


sunofsamsonite

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

Sorry, I never meant to insinuate that you weren't about the truth, I was just saying with these politics, items are on a need to know basis. We have to protect ourselves from the slime balls out there.

I'm not a person who will go around blindly accepting things. When we are asked to sign cards we don't know what and why we are signing for! Look at what happend the first time around, we signed cards, and they pulled out! Forgive us for being weary about the IBEW.

You guys have meetings and people and communication out there, how hard could it possibly be to get people out here in PHX, LAS, LAX for a few days, weeks, whatever it takes, and start communicating with US? Yeah, pardon me for being weary.

 

[Tim Nelson]

From the beginning, it was made clear that the IBEW prez would not publically back a campaign. Everything has been upfront. It was also made clear at IBEW meetings that this is because of a pending fine that the IBEW prez would have to pay. Even though the IBEW's face has not been around the campaign, I can assure you that the fingerprint was plastered all over this campaign. Who do you think paid for the confirmed travel? The IBEW campaign was never the work of a few renegades. Ask anyone in PHL and they will tell you that Johnny Doc initiated this campaign and that the PHL local was [and perhaps still is] heavily involved.
Nonetheless, let's give your local chair some points for calling out the IBEW Prez, although I still think it is too early to consider the IBEW withdrawal. We've been in contact and I can assure you that no withdrawal has been mentioned, although my personal opinion is that I am unconvinced that the IBEW will pay the fine or do a full blown campaign. Certainly they have enough cards of support to make such a decision so I can't make any apologies for the IBEW and your local chair has a valid point at this time. As cards continue to be signed, decisions from the IBEW should be made soon. Are they in? Are they out? I would expect this to be answered within the next 7 days.

As for your local chair, I suppose he already informed you of his VP spot on Canale's ticket this February?

regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

But, it is not going to happen!

Now back to the original problem. Getting the current group to work for you!

Congrats to all of the IBEW organizers who worked so hard for this work group. You have been noticed, and your dedication is appreciated. Now it is time to put away the sword and work with the current leadership group that we put in place and make sure that they work for us!

Goldenram, the contention lies in the fact that the current leadership has not proved itself useful to workers. I suppose you may disagree with me on this since you advocated Flynn as someone you can work with.
My understanding is that Flynn is up for election in February and I think it would be rather refreshing to look into supporting others from PHL who will be more useful to the PHL workers, than Flynn has been. Certainly, it is premature to really list potential candidates until local elections are handled first in December.

Nonetheless, if you could kindly unpack what you mean when you said earlier that you can get Flynn to straigthen up?

regards,

 

[perserverance]

PO'D-
What is it you want ? The IBEW will not come out publicly and say anything until
the numbers show they have enough interest. The IBEW was in PHX for close to 5 days
early on in the campain to put together a committee and ask them to see what support
they could generate in PHX. With no public campain PHX has signed over 400 cards. Have
you been approached by anyone from this committee ? If not send me a private message
with your name and I will personally make sure that someone from the IBEW committee in
PHX seeks you out to help alieve any questions you may have.

Sweet, the easiest way to
explain what is currently going on is to lay it out as this : You represent one of the breakrooms
in PHX and you hear people from the other breakroom would be interested in you representing
them. People from the other breakroom approach you and ask you to represent them. Now, the
guy currently representing the other breakroom hear's about this and ask the airport and you
of your intent. The airport say's you can do it though it's not really looked upon as the right thing
to do and informs you that if you choose to ask the people in the other breakroom that you would
be interested in representing them, you will face fines out of your pocket to accomplish this. So
you ask the people from the other breakroom to sign a card indicating that they would like to be under
your representation, but you don't show the airport those cards to your sure enough people signed the cards that will let you know that when you tell the airport and the other breakroom your going to seek thier votes for representstion you are sure of thier interest before you subject yourself to fines that
are coming out of your pocket. Once you see these people showed enough interest, you show the airport inform the other breakroom represenitive and go forward in telling everyone you'd like to represent them............It' now comes down to a vote. ...The airport is the AFL-CIO, the
breakrooms are the IAM and the IBEW.

Would you as an independent tell the
airport of your intent before you had sufficient knowledge of the interest and just pay the fines out
of your pocket or would you wait ?

Does this explain it to you any better ?

This post is intended for PO'ed ramper...........I would have sent it p.m. but I don't know
if he recieves them. I've sent him private messages before and have never recieved
a reply.

Thanks

 

[freedom]

From the beginning, it was made clear that the IBEW prez would not publically back a campaign. Everything has been upfront. It was also made clear at IBEW meetings that this is because of a pending fine that the IBEW prez would have to pay. Even though the IBEW's face has not been around the campaign, I can assure you that the fingerprint was plastered all over this campaign. Who do you think paid for the confirmed travel? The IBEW campaign was never the work of a few renegades. Ask anyone in PHL and they will tell you that Johnny Doc initiated this campaign and that the PHL local was [and perhaps still is] heavily involved.
Nonetheless, let's give your local chair some points for calling out the IBEW Prez, although I still think it is too early to consider the IBEW withdrawal. We've been in contact and I can assure you that no withdrawal has been mentioned, although my personal opinion is that I am unconvinced that the IBEW will pay the fine or do a full blown campaign. Certainly they have enough cards of support to make such a decision so I can't make any apologies for the IBEW and your local chair has a valid point at this time. As cards continue to be signed, decisions from the IBEW should be made soon. Are they in? Are they out? I would expect this to be answered within the next 7 days.

As for your local chair, I suppose he already informed you of his VP spot on Canale's ticket this February?

regards,

:down:

oh and another thing ,It's quite visible to me that your once again trying to slander our PHX chair with another read between the lines ,hint hint he's in canale's pocket remark . I don't see why you BEGRUDGE us having representation within the IAM , do you want us to have NO UNION officials in the IAM from the WEST ? Geez give us a break , the IBEW thing is NOT going to work , this means we're going to need to have representation within the IAM , don't hold it against us just because some of our workers have had the good sense to figure out what's going to happen once the dust settles . Finally i think it's VP of the local lodge , it would be awesome if i was wrong thou and it was VP of the entire union .

 

[lithuanian]

Freedom! You have a gentle way of stating the facts. That is commendable. Let's cut to the chase. There is a merger coming, and it isn't going to represent us airways. Looks like the real players don't accept our arrogant management. Good luck to us all.

 

[orioleman]

any updates on the drive system wide ..

 

[Dog Wonder]

People asking if the 'ibew committee' is part of the real IBEW.

 

[PO'ed PHX Ramper]

Ok, thanks for some of the clarity guys, but as one question gets answered 10 more arise.

Sure mergers are going to happen, but it's all speculation. Ahh, better to have the IBEW in there, ok I see your point. Fair enough, we have seen what the IAM did for us with THIS merger.

My next question is WHAT the IBEW will do to bring the company to the table, and be agressive and provide, for us, a fair and equitable contract. We've seen what the IAM CAN'T do, now lets hear what the IBEW CAN do. What are we sticking our necks out for? Is it just to get back at the IAM or can we benefit from having another union step in. One thing I would LOVE to see is section 6 open up then the IAM can get ugly with DP and his high-priced lawyers.

I still can't get over the fact our boys aren't paid the same as you guys, and that the airline was allowed to have one certificate with two different workgroups.


Sorry if you think this has all been said before. I don't care if you guys spent 2 weeks on this in the East but if I'm going to be of any service to my brothers and sisters, I need to know!

 

[700UW]

Show me one union at any legacy that has taken concessions that has gotten anything fair and equatable since 9/11?

 

[Tim Nelson]

:down:

oh and another thing ,It's quite visible to me that your once again trying to slander our PHX chair with another read between the lines ,hint hint he's in canale's pocket remark . I don't see why you BEGRUDGE us having representation within the IAM , do you want us to have NO UNION officials in the IAM from the WEST ? Geez give us a break , the IBEW thing is NOT going to work , this means we're going to need to have representation within the IAM , don't hold it against us just because some of our workers have had the good sense to figure out what's going to happen once the dust settles . Finally i think it's VP of the local lodge , it would be awesome if i was wrong thou and it was VP of the entire union .

Freedom,
No hint intended. I've been one east sider who has been shouting that you guys need representation so I think you need to either learn how to read or reread. No, I was not talking about the VP local, I was actually talking about the VP district. Unfortunately, the west will continue to have east siders represent them at the AGC level since Canale refuses to put west siders at the AGC level. What I did hear is that your local chair is on Canale's team and has agreed he would wait in line for an AGC job and instead take the VP job that Canale is offering him in February. Ask your local chair about that one and see what he sez.

Further, your local chair posted lies, about a half dozen of them regarding the election process. He offered no apologies and aparently doesn't have to since you and others don't care if he post 100% lies. Then you ask why you guys are getting pissed on out there? It's all about the leadership and who isn't advocating for you guys the way someone ought to be.

regards,