IAM 141 TA discussion

[Tim Nelson]

About ron , yes that's an accurate assentment of him , he’s no friend to the company or DP … and I think you guys will grow to like him … he has a SPINE … this is our MAN that we are sending to you … receive him well .


Click here for Second Negotiations Update

It's my understanding that Mr Roth suppoerted that last TA. Please clear this up for me.
Thanks...BF

RR agreed to contract out 19 of his own stations. That's not a nice fella at all. He also lied or was blistfully ignorant in his letters, but we corrected them on the internet and informed his people of his apparent deceit or full blown ignorance. I've never met the guy but he's not a nice fella, sorry. Why doesn't he contract out his own job and see how that feels? None of those 19 west stations need to get contracted out......NONE of them and Roth should understand this but he doesn't. He wants that VP job Randy promised him.

Further, my understanding is that Boss Canale got together with RR and after realizing Randy will lose his butt out west, even in RR's station, Randy apparently advised RR [and RR apparently agreed to support that] that 2,500 members out west will NOT be able to participate in the nominations in February but so far I have this on rumor. Since Freedom knows Ron Roth, perhaps he can ask him if it's true that the US West rampers won't be able to vote.

At this time, I don't believe it since disenfrinchising 2,500 workers is serious stuff.

Can you confirm this Freedom?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

 

[b737200]

RR agreed to contract out 19 of his own stations. That's not a nice fella at all. He also lied or was blistfully ignorant in his letters, but we corrected them on the internet and informed his people of his apparent deceit or full blown ignorance. I've never met the guy but he's not a nice fella, sorry. Why doesn't he contract out his own job and see how that feels? None of those 19 west stations need to get contracted out......NONE of them and Roth should understand this but he doesn't. He wants that VP job Randy promised him.

Further, my understanding is that Boss Canale got together with RR and after realizing Randy will lose his butt out west, even in RR's station, Randy apparently advised RR [and RR apparently agreed to support that] that 2,500 members out west will NOT be able to participate in the nominations in February but so far I have this on rumor. Since Freedom knows Ron Roth, perhaps he can ask him if it's true that the US West rampers won't be able to vote.

At this time, I don't believe it since disenfrinchising 2,500 workers is serious stuff.

Can you confirm this Freedom?

regards,
Tim Nelson
IAM Local Chairman, 1487, Chicago

If the west cannot vote, then how is it that one of thier own run for office? This sounds like a two sided coin, but then again when has " cheap suites " done anything ethical. Also Tim, if there would happento be a merger with UA wouldn't there be a conflict of interest by " cheap suites " being our union leader
and also being a UA board member?

In closing I will say FRNKIE O ......FRANKIE O......FRANKIE O... a new voice for the PHL rampers.

 

[GoldenRam94]

if there would happento be a merger with UA wouldn't there be a conflict of interest by " cheap suites " being our union leader
and also being a UA board member?

Since UA is employee owned, they will always have representation from the IAM on the board. The pilots union at UA also has a board member.

 

[605AW]

Some time in 1998 the west TWU contract took effect. It was called a decent
first time contract but was mocked by most. It is still mocked by many
on this board. The top pay was $15.20. But what does this come out to if
adjusted for inflation? The source I used only went up to the end of 2006.
That figure comes out to $18.57. There is another consideration which is
called the cost of living which takes into account more things and that figure is
$19.33

Here's a list of some of the other things which were in that contract.
1. matching 401 K plan 3% of gross pay
2. short term long term disability
3. double overtime after day 6
4. 100% two weeks sick pay [FT]
5. 3 weeks paid vacation in 5th year
6. 4 weeks in year 13
7. uniform allowence
8. No outsourcing language.

And some of you are willing to accept less than this? I wish all concerned would
take a look at these figures and get real about what's fair. Arguments can be
made about the economy, globaliztion, the state of the airline industry et al, but
they don't come close to justifying a contract which in real terms does not hold
a candle to the 1998 TWU contract. Not even close.


Thanks BF

I totally agree with you. And for those who thought the TA was an insult, especially Phx and Las West FSA, you're so out of touch with reality. I think you accually bought in that the COC was going to benefit you in the end. That the "golden ticket" the East FSA was holding was your ticket out of poverty. Well, all your holding now is your A$$ cheeks. Don't you get it? They already through their Union family members under the bus to save their own A$$ with BK2. And I gaurantee what ever becomes of the latest round of negotiations the Class 1 stations will say "it's not enough". Why? They have nothing to lose till next year!!!

So, everyone who voted NO on the TA, for those of you who ran Message Board campaign bandwagon to get out the NO vote out, you and you alone need to take responsibility for your action. Not the Union Officers...not the Negotiating Team...Quit blaming everyone else. It was greed and ignorance that led us to where we are today.

 

[john john]

.We would also like it if you in the other stations and hubs would organize to have rally’s on Wed as well …we’re not talking work stoppage , just rally’s .. It’s time to send a message to the sand castle that we will not be lowballed . People think our companies reputation can’t get worse ?well we still have people flying on us so we have some room to maneuver downwards ..

When USAirways outscores a large amount of fleet services stations and 2/3 of the airline is express the punch is less effective

 

[rat tales]

I totally agree with you. And for those who thought the TA was an insult, especially Phx and Las West FSA, you're so out of touch with reality. I think you accually (actually)bought in that the COC was going to benefit you in the end. That the "golden ticket" the East FSA was holding was your ticket out of poverty. Well, all your (you're) holding now is your A$$(sweet) cheeks. Don't you get it? They already through (threw) their Union family members under the bus to save their own A$$ with BK2. And I gaurantee (guarantee) what ever becomes of the latest round of negotiations the Class 1 stations will say "it's not enough". Why? They have nothing to lose till next year!!!

So, everyone who voted NO on the TA, for those of you who ran (the)Message Board campaign bandwagon to get out the NO vote out, you and you alone need to take responsibility for your action(s). Not the Union Officers...not the Negotiating Team...Quit blaming everyone else (horrible structure). It was greed (knowledge) and ignorance (solidarity) that led us to where we are today.

A high school diploma will get you pay above the poverty level. Education is a must! Only with these can you have a better understanding of the group that refuse to be dragged around by a nose ring. They are educating themselves, sticking together, and are willing to take a new direction.

 

[GoldenRam94]

So, everyone who voted NO on the TA, for those of you who ran Message Board campaign bandwagon to get out the NO vote out, you and you alone need to take responsibility for your action. Not the Union Officers...not the Negotiating Team...Quit blaming everyone else. It was greed and ignorance that led us to where we are today.

Actually what they need to do, is anticipate the same work rules to apply for another two years!

 

[700UW]

Since UA is employee owned, they will always have representation from the IAM on the board. The pilots union at UA also has a board member.

UA is not employee owned, that was over during their bankruptcy.

 

[GoldenRam94]

UA is not employee owned, that was over during their bankruptcy.

That is correct, but the board makeup remains the same from those days when they were employee owned with the IAM and ALPA having a seat on the board.

 

[The Bagfather]

Since UA is employee owned, they will always have representation from the IAM on the board. The pilots union at UA also has a board member.

There is no oconflict of interest between UA fleet and Canale's Board duties. There is a
conflict of interest with US Fleet service. Not legally but ethically. There are too
many reasons for Canale to want to lowball US fleet service and some of them invlove
his allegence to UA FS which in no small part is connected to his posistiion at UA
even if he has very little actual power as to UA's opporation.

BTW what are his current duties at UA? People have speculated that he is interested
in a merger with UA and US. No proplem there except if US got a better contract.
Then the merger would become more difficult. Canale would have more power
with merger. IAM FS would have more power and I'm not opposed to that. But
another cheap TA would be the cost. I don't believe that Canale is fighting for our
interest's. He' may have a scenario down the road but I don't think in general he's
trusted and a Big part of that has to due with his connection with UA.

Also as has been pointed out a billion times before all this seems to point heavily
to his own fixation with TA at our expense. Thanks BF

 

[The Bagfather]

I totally agree with you. And for those who thought the TA was an insult, especially Phx and Las West FSA, you're so out of touch with reality. I think you accually bought in that the COC was going to benefit you in the end. That the "golden ticket" the East FSA was holding was your ticket out of poverty. Well, all your holding now is your A$$ cheeks. Don't you get it? They already through their Union family members under the bus to save their own A$$ with BK2. And I gaurantee what ever becomes of the latest round of negotiations the Class 1 stations will say "it's not enough". Why? They have nothing to lose till next year!!!

So, everyone who voted NO on the TA, for those of you who ran Message Board campaign bandwagon to get out the NO vote out, you and you alone need to take responsibility for your action. Not the Union Officers...not the Negotiating Team...Quit blaming everyone else. It was greed and ignorance that led us to where we are today.

I guess I wasn't clear in my post. Sorry.. What I meant to get across was not the fact that
the west contract was good. soething like 45% voted against it. The point was actually
that it was a mediocre contract but still way better that the Sept TA when put in real
money terms. That TA represented a consession to the TWU contracct.

The main point of the post was to point out that even a $21.00 contract with everything else
intact from the west contract represents a compramise if not a consesion.

The TWU contract was mocked by several on this board. The point I was trying to make
is that if you agreed with them which I do to a certain extent. Then that would make the
Sept TA grossly consetionary. Not mildly consessionary but GROSSLY so.

Sorry for the confussion. BF

 

[Hey.. Chill Out]

There is no oconflict of interest between UA fleet and Canale's Board duties. There is a
conflict of interest with US Fleet service. Not legally but ethically. There are too
many reasons for Canale to want to lowball US fleet service and some of them invlove
his allegence to UA FS which in no small part is connected to his posistiion at UA
even if he has very little actual power as to UA's opporation.

BTW what are his current duties at UA? People have speculated that he is interested
in a merger with UA and US. No proplem there except if US got a better contract.
Then the merger would become more difficult. Canale would have more power
with merger. IAM FS would have more power and I'm not opposed to that. But
another cheap TA would be the cost. I don't believe that Canale is fighting for our
interest's. He' may have a scenario down the road but I don't think in general he's
trusted and a Big part of that has to due with his connection with UA.

Also as has been pointed out a billion times before all this seems to point heavily
to his own fixation with TA at our expense. Thanks BF

I agree with that. He may be screwing us right now, but I think he and Parker have a plan for a decent contract AFTER another airline merger. I have believed this since US announced their bid for DL. Doug said he would pay to the higher of the workgroups. Maybe he's holding out NOW so he doesn't have to pony up on more dough in the next accuisition.

If I were in the 100k club, I would agree with this, but I say take all you can grab as fast as possible. There's no reason for any of us to be conservative with how much we earn.

 

[Black Magic]

A few thoughts..Section 6 for the west sounds like a good idea but I dont think the IAM is going to pursue any time or money into it because it just that "for the west". Kinda like how the CIC was not pushed very hard because it was an east thing. The IAM was holding the west "hostage" in an attempt to also get a contract for the east but that didn't work either.

The CIC was lost but a rumor was the mediator was not pleased with with the pay difference between the two work groups and told the company to fix it immediately. Which brings me to believe that the west is going to have the same pay scale and it is going to be done without a vote. The reality is that one of the reasons AWA aquired US Airways was because of their cheap labor bankruptcy contracts. The company has a cheap labor contract till end of 2009 and they are going to be sure to keep it as long as possible.

On the last TA agreement..I here a main complaint about out sourcing stations. But if I remember right it was only "if those stations dropped below a certain number of flights a day". Just because the contract was voted in does not mean those people lose their jobs.

 

[The Bagfather]

A few thoughts..Section 6 for the west sounds like a good idea but I dont think the IAM is going to pursue any time or money into it because it just that "for the west". Kinda like how the CIC was not pushed very hard because it was an east thing. The IAM was holding the west "hostage" in an attempt to also get a contract for the east but that didn't work either.

The CIC was lost but a rumor was the mediator was not pleased with with the pay difference between the two work groups and told the company to fix it immediately. Which brings me to believe that the west is going to have the same pay scale and it is going to be done without a vote. The reality is that one of the reasons AWA aquired US Airways was because of their cheap labor bankruptcy contracts. The company has a cheap labor contract till end of 2009 and they are going to be sure to keep it as long as possible.

On the last TA agreement..I here a main complaint about out sourcing stations. But if I remember right it was only "if those stations dropped below a certain number of flights a day". Just because the contract was voted in does not mean those people lose their jobs.

Black Majic. Thanks for your kind words. I happen to be "just part of the west". It would make
a difference to me. The CIC was not pushed because the original language was so
weak. Neverthless Canale Himself thought it was weak. At least that's what his public
opinion was. The criterion which the arbitrator used in his ruling was so strict as to
make any COC grievence laughable.

I suppose in arbitration the arbitrator can consider anything he feels like. Mabey he thought
the pay scale was unfair to the LLC..If your rumor is true I would consider it both
unethical and demeaning to both east and west. And further if it is true it was may
have been promted by the IAM. They are the ones who would win in the case of
turning the west over to the IAM contract.

If the outsourcing of west stations was not important to the LLC they wouldn't have
put that language. At any rate it will now be used as a bargaining chip.

Like I pointed out before in real dollar terms[adjusting for inflation] and considering
other language the old TWU contract was far superior to the Sept TA. All FS
needs to wake up to this fact. To get a good TA with this mindset is impossible.

Thanks BF

 

[JoeDirt]

[
On the last TA agreement..I here a main complaint about out sourcing stations. But if I remember right it was only "if those stations dropped below a certain number of flights a day". Just because the contract was voted in does not mean those people lose their jobs.
[/quote]
Black Magic don't fool yourself into thinking this would not happen. Those stations were as good as gone. How long do you think it would take for the number of flights to drop below the stated number. ASAP.