Haven't Heard About the Extra 4% in Equity to be Held Aside?

[WeAAsles]

You mean the brothers and sisters who switched from NO to Yes took the $40grand and now want some of the equity that was given in exchange for the concessions? I say take the money from the 757 grievance and use that since Tulsa voted for this deal and they had the most people retire. Didn't the Pilots and Flight Attendants give their retirees equity? But then again didn't they also come out of Bankruptcy with deals that still left them near the top of the industry and not at a very distant bottom, sans USAir?This horrible deal happen "solely" due to the laws, it was helped by people in our union who were and have been helping AA screw us for many years prior to the filing.Sure you may get your 'held shares" , less legal and administrative costs that is.

Maybe you should consider speaking to a few Pilots and FA's so they can inform you personally what they've lost. I have. I'm sure that you are well aware that a contract is more than just the base rate. It contains many different ingredients that make it whole and the BK law is written with the phrase "Fair and Equitable" so every group took the same percentage of losses. That percentage was 17%.. No matter what size the pie was 17% was taken from that.

Be as angry as you all like but that number will not change. 17%.

 

[WeAAsles]

I personally admire Thomas Paine. The title of this work of his alone is something we should remember as a guide through life.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_(pamphlet)

 

[Thomas Paine]

Well go ahead and tell us what you have heard because I've spoken to them as well. Sure they aren't happy with what they gave up  but those I've spoken to feel they are still better off than their peers at most other carriers. Unlike us they weren't already 20% below their peers when AA filed, if anything they were 20% above their peers. same with our FSCs and other workgroups. Bankruptcy brought them down towards their peers, we were already below ours. The USAIR Pilots and Flight Attendants are pretty enthusiastic about getting the same deal that AA crew members have, cant say the same about USAIR mechanics who despite a slight disadvantage in hourly rates certainly do not want our workrules, benefits or Union.

 

[AANOTOK]

Thomas,
 
Go ahead and show me a chart that I (fleet) was 20% above my peers. IIRC, we were either third or fourth in fleet pay when we went into BK. I don't question you're assertion that your workgroup was at the bottom of your peers but do question your FSC comment.
 
And sorry for this not even close to being on topic...

 

[WeAAsles]

Thomas,
 
Go ahead and show me a chart that I (fleet) was 20% above my peers. IIRC, we were either third or fourth in fleet pay when we went into BK. I don't question you're assertion that your workgroup was at the bottom of your peers but do question your FSC comment.
 
And sorry for this not even close to being on topic...

Again and I will reiterate it a million times. Our pay is part of a compensation package and if you put that total compensation (base rate, benefits, jobs) together as a comparison to the other players out there. yes we were the highest paid in the industry. Southwest probably makes more but Southwest has been profitable since day one.

 

[WeAAsles]

Does it matter in any way shape or form that at least IMO and from what I read the TWU in the BK saved more maintenance jobs than any other airline? And in a year and 5 months no matter what with the industry averaging you'll be making a base rate of much more than you do today? Is there any mechanic on any of these threads who cares about that at all?

 

[AANOTOK]

Again and I will reiterate it a million times. Our pay is part of a compensation package and if you put that total compensation (base rate, benefits, jobs) together as a comparison to the other players out there. yes we were the highest paid in the industry. Southwest probably makes more but Southwest has been profitable since day one.

Again, show me a chart that shows AA fleet service clerks were the highest paid in the industry when AA filed BK, let alone 20% above their peers. I do not believe you can show either!

 

[WeAAsles]

Again, show me a chart that shows AA fleet service clerks were the highest paid in the industry when AA filed BK, let alone 20% above their peers. I do not believe you can show either!

No I cannot and I extremely, extremely doubt that we were compensated the ridiculous notion of 20% above our nearest competitor. But I do have friends in the industry and by doing rundowns talking to them we were being compensated better. Remember we still had an accumulating pension before the BK.

 

[NYer]

No other union on the property has this problem. Only the twu. In fact the twu is the only one that choose to administer this theft.

 
All the other unions held a reserve...The APA also faced a challenge in an Arbitration setting and they prevailed.
 
The most likely outcome to these lawsuits will be that they're thrown out of Court for several reasons.

 

[NYer]

You mean the brothers and sisters who switched from NO to Yes took the $40grand and now want some of the equity that was given in exchange for the concessions? I say take the money from the 757 grievance and use that since Tulsa voted for this deal and they had the most people retire. Didn't the Pilots and Flight Attendants give their retirees equity? --No, they did not....The APA disqualified members that were on IOD, took overage leaves, reserve flight attendants received less than their counterparts, as examples.
 
 
But then again didn't they also come out of Bankruptcy with deals that still left them near the top of the industry and not at a very distant bottom, sans USAir?

This horrible deal happen "solely" due to the laws, it was helped by people in our union who were and have been helping AA screw us for many years prior to the filing.

Sure you may get your 'held shares" , less legal and administrative costs that is.

 

[AANOTOK]

Just a little sampling of how the membership feels in regards
to the handling of the equity situation.
 
By: XXXXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:10 AM
Every hand-out, informational flyer, presentation provided bythe TWU clearly stated "legal expenses" were covered under the initial 5% Reserve. Changing the Plan now means someone, somewhere, failed to effectively plan, organize, implement and lead. Can't blame this on the Company. They only gave TWU the negotiated Equity disbursment(s). The TWU owns this mess, exclusively.

By: XXXXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:06 AM
something seems very fishy... fishy....

By: XXXXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:47 AM
What the hell does our dues pay for?

By: XXXXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:43 AM
I agree with XXXX. And if it is legal it sure as heck isn't ethical or moral. It seems like the TWU is using OUR equity stake as a slush fund to pay for whatever they want without us having any say in the matter, along with continually uping the amount they're taking from us. How does the TWU normally fund legal fees for lawsuits? From union dues I would think. Why all of a sudden the change? I would rather it come out of dues than directly out of OUR equity stake. We gave up so much for so little in return at least let us have what is due us!

By: XXXXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:36 AM
I thought the union held 5% out of the first distribution for any mistakes that might be found, if so are they holding out 14% in addition to the 5%.

 

[AANOTOK]

More comments...
 

By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:58 PM
I'm asking this question out of ignorance,not to be a smart-ass... Would filing a class-action lawsuit against the TWU be a viable option ? It seems to me that we have continually paid our dues and not received the representation or backing we should be entitled to as Union members.
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:48 AM
I agree! Wouldn't it be nice if the TWU gave its own membership as much support as it does to other unions? How much will they with hold from our equity stake to support the IAM?
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:31 AM
Yes it is a total of 14%. The TWU kept 5% just in case, then took another 5% for the law suit and now has grabbed another 4% for a total of 14%. And still no word from the TWU on this continued theft of our equity.
By: XXXXXXXX
Monday, March 24, 2014 3:38 PM
I see it's now 14%. We will all have to eat yet another Sh#% Sandwich.
By: XXXXXXXX
Monday, March 24, 2014 3:14 PM
...Because the Intl. doesn't want to pay for any of this. It's ALL coming out of the 10% of OUR equity being witheld by the TWU. Question is, will there be anything left after the lawyers get their cut? Win or lose, they get paid out of that 10%. Another question is WHO is earning interest off this chunk of money? A'A, TWU/ATD, or Membership ??

 

[Realityck]

More comments...
 
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:58 PM
I'm asking this question out of ignorance,not to be a smart-ass... Would filing a class-action lawsuit against the TWU be a viable option ? It seems to me that we have continually paid our dues and not received the representation or backing we should be entitled to as Union members.
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:48 AM
I agree! Wouldn't it be nice if the TWU gave its own membership as much support as it does to other unions? How much will they with hold from our equity stake to support the IAM?
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:31 AM
Yes it is a total of 14%. The TWU kept 5% just in case, then took another 5% for the law suit and now has grabbed another 4% for a total of 14%. And still no word from the TWU on this continued theft of our equity.
By: XXXXXXXX
Monday, March 24, 2014 3:38 PM
I see it's now 14%. We will all have to eat yet another Sh#% Sandwich.
By: XXXXXXXX
Monday, March 24, 2014 3:14 PM
...Because the Intl. doesn't want to pay for any of this. It's ALL coming out of the 10% of OUR equity being witheld by the TWU. Question is, will there be anything left after the lawyers get their cut? Win or lose, they get paid out of that 10%. Another question is WHO is earning interest off this chunk of money? A'A, TWU/ATD, or Membership ??

 
 
 
[SIZE=15pt]It’s unfortunate you keep making posts that misinform people about why the equity is being held back. The equity is being held back because the TWU’s having to defend three lawsuits in which retirees are claiming they are entitled to 14% of the equity. The decision to hold this amount of equity back in the face of legal claims would be sensible in any circumstance, but in this case the Judge handling one of the cases made it clear that he believed the equity claimed by the retirees should be held in reserve and, in all likelihood would have issued an injunction against any distribution which did not leave enough in reserve to satisfy their claims. That’s the way courts almost always handle these kind of issues and it wouldn’t be in anyone’s interest – at least not anyone who wants to see the final 14% delivered to the members.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=15pt]The TWU followed the wishes of the majority of its elected Local Presidents and its active membership and decided that the equity belonged to active employees. I agree with that decision, but it amazes me that you and others spin these conspiracy theories when all the TWU did was make the decision the members wanted on the issue of retiree eligibility and then take the only reasonable steps it could to defend the decision in court.[/SIZE]

 

[WeAAsles]

Careful Realityck. The truth is very unpopular around here and is more often than not attacked, ridiculed, slammed, and twisted.

 

[NYer]

More comments...
 
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 1:58 PM
I'm asking this question out of ignorance,not to be a smart-ass... Would filing a class-action lawsuit against the TWU be a viable option ? It seems to me that we have continually paid our dues and not received the representation or backing we should be entitled to as Union members.
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:48 AM
I agree! Wouldn't it be nice if the TWU gave its own membership as much support as it does to other unions? How much will they with hold from our equity stake to support the IAM?
By: XXXXXXXX
Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:31 AM
Yes it is a total of 14%. The TWU kept 5% just in case, then took another 5% for the law suit and now has grabbed another 4% for a total of 14%. And still no word from the TWU on this continued theft of our equity.
By: XXXXXXXX
Monday, March 24, 2014 3:38 PM
I see it's now 14%. We will all have to eat yet another Sh#% Sandwich.
By: XXXXXXXX
Monday, March 24, 2014 3:14 PM
...Because the Intl. doesn't want to pay for any of this. It's ALL coming out of the 10% of OUR equity being witheld by the TWU. Question is, will there be anything left after the lawyers get their cut? Win or lose, they get paid out of that 10%. Another question is WHO is earning interest off this chunk of money? A'A, TWU/ATD, or Membership ??

 
There is unquestioned guilt in the fact that this wasn't explained properly and it is logical for Members to fall to these conclusions. However, if the information was properly shared at least some would see things as they are as opposed to how they believe it is.
 
Holding the 14% was done in response to the injunction that was to be requested by the plaintiffs (Early Out's) in this case. The injunction would have stopped ALL distribution from being dispersed to the Members on the 120th day mark. In order to prevent that from occurring the percentage was agreed to by the parties and it allows that majority of the shares to be distributed. The agreement or COURT ORDER also caps legal fees and other expenses at 4% (which is still a substantial amount)