"fooled Again By Ward"

[latreal]

Hey, latreal, life is really a lot easier if you don't go around looking for opportunities to be offended. I can only assume that you are implying that I am really ex-TWA because of my furlough date.

I began flying for AA on 07SEP2000 following my graduation from FU on Hwy 360 in Ft. Worth, TX. I am actually senior to ALL of the former TWA flight attendants on the furlough list.

OK, so in your way of thinking TWAers should be senior to you then.
Offended? I could not be offended over the internet. :huh:

 

[MiAAmi]

Hey, latreal, life is really a lot easier if you don't go around looking for opportunities to be offended. I can only assume that you are implying that I am really ex-TWA because of my furlough date.

I began flying for AA on 07SEP2000 following my graduation from FU on Hwy 360 in Ft. Worth, TX. I am actually senior to ALL of the former TWA flight attendants on the furlough list.

Stand back everyone, we have a 3 year furloughed naative flight attendant that knows his/her stuff.

 

[jsn25911]

in what you and miAAmi would call twisted thinking... In a lot of minds twa declared BK twice and AA declared BK once...for twa.

Whatever makes life easier for you! You can align yourself with a 2 year naative god if you wish but the fact remains that TWA is out of business. No one else came running to out bid AA for the assets of TWA. you can what if yourself to death but TWA is gone and whats done is done. Its time to start looking forward and to the next round of negotiations.

Miami - TWA is not dead and gone. The name may be gone - due to AA taking us. However, we are here to stay! And actually Miami - that furloughee has taken the time to educate himself about what really occurred. I would suggest that you get some schooling! I would trust his opinion many more times than I would someone that believes that Ward is a hero, that voted yes for the t/a, etc.

Latreal - You are not even an employee - you have been exposed on other boards - so you are trying to find someone to give you attention.

 

[TransWorldONE]

Hey, latreal, life is really a lot easier if you don't go around looking for opportunities to be offended. I can only assume that you are implying that I am really ex-TWA because of my furlough date.

I began flying for AA on 07SEP2000 following my graduation from FU on Hwy 360 in Ft. Worth, TX. I am actually senior to ALL of the former TWA flight attendants on the furlough list.

Stand back everyone, we have a 3 year furloughed naative flight attendant that knows his/her stuff.

I hope your arrogance keeps you warm at night...and believe me YOU don't need to remind me that my company is no longer around. I am reminded of that every day. And don't think I won't keep reminding you why.

 

[jimntx]

Stand back everyone, we have a 3 year furloughed naative flight attendant that knows his/her stuff.

Ah, yes. Length of time on the job is the only measure of intelligence or knowledge. So, does that mean that every flight attendant that has more years than you is smarter than you and knows more about being a flight attendant than you? That would make almost all the former TWA flight attendants smarter than you and better flight attendants than you.

The fact is that I have over 30 years of business experience, most of that in a management position (and I know this is going to come as a shock, but AMR is a business. It doesn't really exist just to give you a place beside the beach to go everyday.) I have watched AMR's management play JW and company like a harp--he is such a sucker.

And, spare me the "industry-bleeding" contract argument. The only thing it lead on was hourly pay. Without the work rules, pay isn't that big a deal. AND, you no longer have the industry-leading pay. As of Dec., 2003, the top of scale at Continental is $48/hr. You remember Continental, don't you? The airline that hasn't furloughed a single flight attendant involuntarily since 9/11, and has never asked for a dime in concessions from it's employees. They just implemented the last scheduled raise of the current f/a contract on schedule and in full.

Beside that, being a flight attendant is not rocket science. I loved being a flight attendant and hope to have the opportunity to do it again. But, it ain't that hard to do.

And, from my experience on the line, there are a LOT flight attendants at AA with 20 years seniority who have not had 20 years experience--they've had 6 months experience 40 times.

 

[MiAAmi]

You are the one throwing your credentials around. And all you have to say is whats wrong with Ward. You have yet to endorse anyone else. I still am waiting to read why one or any of the other canidates is a better choice for APFA president than Ward.

 

[latreal]

in what you and miAAmi would call twisted thinking... In a lot of minds twa declared BK twice and AA declared BK once...for twa.

Whatever makes life easier for you! You can align yourself with a 2 year naative god if you wish but the fact remains that TWA is out of business. No one else came running to out bid AA for the assets of TWA. you can what if yourself to death but TWA is gone and whats done is done. Its time to start looking forward and to the next round of negotiations.

Miami - TWA is not dead and gone. The name may be gone - due to AA taking us. However, we are here to stay! And actually Miami - that furloughee has taken the time to educate himself about what really occurred. I would suggest that you get some schooling! I would trust his opinion many more times than I would someone that believes that Ward is a hero, that voted yes for the t/a, etc.

Latreal - You are not even an employee - you have been exposed on other boards - so you are trying to find someone to give you attention.

I have never claimed to be an AA employee. I am married to an employee...kinda like the retired poster. Why do you keep saying that?
What have I been exposed of? What am I trying to hide? Please do tell..I mean re-expose me so I can have a clue.
We can continue to keep this about me if you wish and if I really cared I would make personal comments about you. But I'm not going to do it. (hint)*guffaw*

 

[jimntx]

OK, so in your way of thinking TWAers should be senior to you then.
Offended? I could not be offended over the internet. :huh:

Latreal, I am fully aware that if the former TWA employees win their lawsuit, I will never be recalled to AA. Ok, that's life. But, fair's fair.

If you believed in unionism rather than me-firstism, you would be appalled that no AFL-CIO union can support APFA in a strike. The AFL-CIO standard in ALL industries is date of hire seniority merging--regardless of the circumstances of the joining of the two companies. It would be a violation of AFL-CIO written policy for a union affiliated with them to refuse to cross our picket lines.

I'm not saying that TWA should have been given DOH. But percentage slotting would have not had that much effect on the seniority of anyone at AA other than those of us who were super-junior.

AND, if AMR and APFA had stuck to the original agreement and kept a fence around STL for 5 years, there would not have been even that much effect upon the juniors. Most of the very senior TWA flight attendants wer planning to retire during the 5 year fence-in anyway. Their TWA pensions are assured and in the bank, and they were never going to earn much of an AA pension.

Everyone at AA complains on the topic of "why don't those senior mommas retire?" The truth is that as an industry, we are just now getting to the point where there are large numbers of flight attendants who have both the years AND the age to take retirement. Through the end of 2001, AA, in its entire 75 year history, had less than 700 flight attendants who had taken full retirement. Remember, there were a lot of years there where if you turned 35, got married, or gained 10 pounds, you got fired. (FYI, those evil TWA flight attendants were in the vanguard of unionized workers who got those rules changed. You can thank them that your wife is even flying today. Marrying you (or anyone else) would have been grounds for termination in the "good old days.") I know a lot of flight attendants at DFW who have 30+ years of service, but they are still in their 50's. They started at 20-22 years of age. Full retirement requires that you be 60 years old.

If AMR had really been concerned about the high-cost of senior flight attendants, they would have offered an early retirement buyout. And, don't believe the bull that they didn't have the cash. They did. I would be willing to bet that if you had offered anyone over 50 who had at least 25 years of service full retirement and a $25,000 cash incentive, you would have had a lot of takers. It would have been cheaper in the short run AND the long run than paying top of scale to those people for another 5-10 years. The upfront cash outlay for each early retiree would have been less than 6 months average salary. For that matter, that solution might have gone a long way toward solving the "TWA problem."

 

[jimntx]

You are the one throwing your credentials around. And all you have to say is whats wrong with Ward. You have yet to endorse anyone else. I still am waiting to read why one or any of the other canidates is a better choice for APFA president than Ward.

And you are the one implying that anyone who is junior doesn't know what they are talking about. AND, if you will look under the thread APFA Country Club, you will find my post on who I voted for and why.

Quite frankly, all but one of my votes was a "hold my nose and vote anyway" action. And, yes, most of them were because the person was not John Ward or a member of his slate.

Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said in 1964, "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it." Well, I can't define what APFA needs for officers in the future, but I know what they don't need when I see it. And that's JW and company.

 

[MiAAmi]

And you are the one implying that anyone who is junior doesn't know what they are talking about. AND, if you will look under the thread APFA Country Club, you will find my post on who I voted for and why.

Quite frankly, all but one of my votes was a "hold my nose and vote anyway" action. And, yes, most of them were because the person was not John Ward or a member of his slate.

Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said in 1964, "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it." Well, I can't define what APFA needs for officers in the future, but I know what they don't need when I see it. And that's JW and company.

Its too bad that you don't have someone to vote for. Voting against someone doesn't help us down the road. I hope you feel better with your vengance vote. The rest of us will vote with the knowledge that we took the time to put things in perspective and decided who was really the better canidate. Thanks for admitting you don't have an informed vote.

 

[jimntx]

Its too bad that you don't have someone to vote for. Voting against someone doesn't help us down the road. I hope you feel better with your vengance vote. The rest of us will vote with the knowledge that we took the time to put things in perspective and decided who was really the better canidate. Thanks for admitting you don't have an informed vote.

No wonder you are such a JW supporter. You're both good at twisting the truth. How dare you say that because I wasn't wild about any of the candidates that my vote was uninformed! It's because I took the time to educate myself about the candidates that I was able to determine that none of them exactly thrilled me.

I am 58 years old. I've been voting for 37 years. I'm one of those people who even votes in the school bond elections even though my wife and I never had any children, because it's part of my responsibility as a citizen. And, in most of the political elections of the past 40 years, if I only voted when I strongly supported a particular candidate or issue, I could have skipped most of them. But, I also believe that if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about the results.

It's called voting for the lesser evil. This politician might do less damage while in office than that one. It would be hard to do MORE damage than Ward has done.

 

[MiAAmi]

It's called voting for the lesser evil. This politician might do less damage while in office than that one. It would be hard to do MORE damage than Ward has done.

I'm not willing to risk that assumption. My future means more to me than that.

 

[jsn25911]

in what you and miAAmi would call twisted thinking... In a lot of minds twa declared BK twice and AA declared BK once...for twa.

Whatever makes life easier for you! You can align yourself with a 2 year naative god if you wish but the fact remains that TWA is out of business. No one else came running to out bid AA for the assets of TWA. you can what if yourself to death but TWA is gone and whats done is done. Its time to start looking forward and to the next round of negotiations.

Miami - TWA is not dead and gone. The name may be gone - due to AA taking us. However, we are here to stay! And actually Miami - that furloughee has taken the time to educate himself about what really occurred. I would suggest that you get some schooling! I would trust his opinion many more times than I would someone that believes that Ward is a hero, that voted yes for the t/a, etc.

Latreal - You are not even an employee - you have been exposed on other boards - so you are trying to find someone to give you attention.

I have never claimed to be an AA employee. I am married to an employee...kinda like the retired poster. Why do you keep saying that?
What have I been exposed of? What am I trying to hide? Please do tell..I mean re-expose me so I can have a clue.
We can continue to keep this about me if you wish and if I really cared I would make personal comments about you. But I'm not going to do it. (hint)*guffaw*

latreal - the difference between you and the retired poster is that he doesn't get on the board and attack everyone. He has stated that he wants his wife to have all the information for her voting. YOUR WIFE IS NOT EVEN A F/A.

You are on the board - JUST TO ATTACK anyone that is against ward. I told you I thought the reason was because if anyone with the know-how would have negotiated our contract - we would not have given-up more than required, and I am sure AA would have demanded more from the pilots. You are working for the pilots and not giving information for the f/a's.

 

[jimntx]

It's called voting for the lesser evil. This politician might do less damage while in office than that one. It would be hard to do MORE damage than Ward has done.

I'm not willing to risk that assumption. My future means more to me than that.

Oh Toto, there's no candidate like Ward. There's no candidate like Ward. There's no candidate like Ward. Just keep saying it and maybe it will come true.

 

[TransWorldONE]

It's called voting for the lesser evil. This politician might do less damage while in office than that one. It would be hard to do MORE damage than Ward has done.

I'm not willing to risk that assumption. My future means more to me than that.

Oh Toto, there's no candidate like Ward. There's no candidate like Ward. There's no candidate like Ward. Just keep saying it and maybe it will come true.

I love it, a nAAtive f/a with a sence of humor...and a heart, out of 20,000 what are the odds!?