"fooled Again By Ward"

[jsn25911]

I was Ozark - and got DOH. Now concerning AA - I originally thought the promises were DOH, I wanted DOH, and I expect DOH!

When we get back to work - I hope that the new union will allow our imput so that we can get ALL f/a's back to work before the 5 year expires. That is what I am going to push when I get back!

 

[L1011Ret]

Rock Salomon, an AA F/A and candidate for the APFA presidency, is claiming the J. Ward's failure to talk to the IAM may result in significant legal difficulties for the SIA. Ward refused to meet with AA about concessions resulting in APFA's having to do everything at the last minute in an ill prepared way. He says it was because AA put a gun to his head but of course the real problem was his failure to get moving on the issues. The result was a very poor concessionary contract. J. Ward has not met with Arpey, the only leader who has failed to do so. He has not participated in the "marriage counseling" nor the latest efforts to have participatory meetings with management to provide better passenger service. At this rate, he will succeed in isolating APFA from everybody. What kind of leadership is this?

 

[jsn25911]

Rock Salomon, an AA F/A and candidate for the APFA presidency, is claiming the J. Ward's failure to talk to the IAM may result in significant legal difficulties for the SIA. Ward refused to meet with AA about concessions resulting in APFA's having to do everything at the last minute in an ill prepared way. He says it was because AA put a gun to his head but of course the real problem was his failure to get moving on the issues. The result was a very poor concessionary contract. J. Ward has not met with Arpey, the only leader who has failed to do so. He has not participated in the "marriage counseling" nor the latest efforts to have participatory meetings with management to provide better passenger service. At this rate, he will succeed in isolating APFA from everybody. What kind of leadership is this?

I hope the membership sends a message to APFA that we want leaders that have the ability to improve our working conditions and get all f/a's back to work. I hope in a few days we will have "capable people" that can lead this membership. I hope we can tell Ward "bye, bye".

 

[LiveInAHotel]

I hope the membership sends a message to APFA that we want leaders that have the ability to improve our working conditions and get all f/a's back to work. I hope in a few days we will have "capable people" that can lead this membership. I hope we can tell Ward "bye, bye".

I just hope that everyone who is able to vote, VOTES! This includes all AA f/a's on furlough as well. Then the only thing everyone will have to do is make the RIGHT CHOICE and NOT RE-ELECT JW!!

 

[skyangelnflight]

Thank you TWAnr.

I have never said anything negative about the TWA'ers on Furlough. Quite the opposite. I have wished everyone well and a quick return. If my 5 year statement was taken the wrong way please know it was about the length of the contract. I don't normally wish time away, but with this contract the sooner we get back to the table the better.

TransWorldONE
An apology to MiAAmi would be in order. . .
since your assumption did what most assumptions do. .

I bet you do...what a nasty thing to say, but not surprising.
instead of wishing that we would all just scurry off and disappear (because we wont) or hoping that the 5years will pass quickly and we will lose our recall right,

and you also L1011Ret

"Wishing five years goes by quickly", is just a provocative statement designed ti incite similar responses.

and Woztwa

You are too kind and give them too much room--of course, they were talking about the 5 yr recall, they spew hatred, for they do not know--but thank you. there is no one to blame for the illegal vote and this absurd "give away" of an RPA,except APFA= MiAAmi/Str8 would like nothing better than to get rid of us--

so much bitterness that dumped out here. . .and what did any of this have to do with being fooled by John Ward? 😱ff:

 

[TWAnr]

so much bitterness that dumped out here. . .and what did any of this have to do with being fooled by John Ward? 😱ff:

Speaking about bitter, isn't this the case of the pot calling the kettle black. We are well familiar with your sentiments, as a very junior commuter, from your postings on the 4M forum.

Here is but one example:

I for one have no choice but to vote for John Ward.
I will not risk any possibility of losing even
one slot of my seniority.

gigi
ORD

 

[operaations]

It sounds to me like JW is winning his scare tacticts of seniority. I may be wrong but isint it in the hands of a judge to decide not JW

 

[jsn25911]

It sounds to me like JW is winning his scare tacticts of seniority. I may be wrong but isint it in the hands of a judge to decide not JW

Operations - you are absolutely correct - this is will be settled in court. Ward knows this and the only thing he can use is the "SCARE TACTIC" of the SI. I guess I was correct in my statements about people being fooled, however, how many times does it take for people to learn? Minimum wage? Longer days? Additional Letters approved for the company to do whatever they want? I have never seen just a company person in a union position!

The main reason we are against Ward is that he absolutely destroyed our working conditions and career. He does not have the skills to be in the position that he is in. He's mentality to giving EVERYTHING and MORE to the company is uncomprehendable! That is the main reason I do not want such inexperience in this position. It is time for a union leader, not a secretly company person acting as a union leader!

 

[TransWorldONE]

Thank you TWAnr.

I have never said anything negative about the TWA'ers on Furlough. Quite the opposite. I have wished everyone well and a quick return. If my 5 year statement was taken the wrong way please know it was about the length of the contract. I don't normally wish time away, but with this contract the sooner we get back to the table the better.

TransWorldONE
An apology to MiAAmi would be in order. . .
since your assumption did what most assumptions do. .

I bet you do...what a nasty thing to say, but not surprising.
instead of wishing that we would all just scurry off and disappear (because we wont) or hoping that the 5years will pass quickly and we will lose our recall right,

and you also L1011Ret


and Woztwa


so much bitterness that dumped out here. . .and what did any of this have to do with being fooled by John Ward? 😱ff:

Thanks for your input Angel, but I don't owe Miaami anything. And I am not bitter just resolved.

 

[L1011Ret]

I don't think very many people like the bitterness. But what underlies the bitterness has been created by bad faith dealings of certain parties. I have to agree that a lot of this is a fierce resolve to correct what is perceived as a great injustice. And to carry through a resolve you need to be energized.

 

[skyangelnflight]

Oh Gigi,

Speaking about bitter, isn't this the case of the pot calling the kettle black. We are well familiar with your sentiments, as a very junior commuter, from your postings on the 4M forum.

Here is but one example:

I for one have no choice but to vote for John Ward.
I will not risk any possibility of losing even
one slot of my seniority.

gigi
ORD

Instead of turning the issue on my stand on senority, you should be
mannerly enough to acknowledge you jumped to an incorrect
conclusion and bashed a fellow poster. A simple "sorry, I thought
you ment something else" would have been the polite thing to do.

To address your accusation of me being bitter. . .

I am not bitter just resolved. 🙄
Many posts on this forum have set the
morter on that one.

Being determined to keep my seniority does not make me bitter.
I will fight to keep it, just as many are fighting to take it.

and don't bandy around the "it wont' hurt anyone" ka-ka. . .
I'm just junior enough that any slotting will hurt me. I am also
old enough to make finding another job at this point in my life
hard. Why do you think it is ok for TWA'ers to have my job and me
to have find something else, over a TWA'er having to find something
else?

That is arrogance. . .

Glad you enjoy the 4m. . .

 

[twasilverbullet]

That is arrogance. . .

Glad you enjoy the 4m. . .

Yes, it is arrogance......yours!

 

[skyangelnflight]

That is arrogance. . .

Glad you enjoy the 4m. . .

Yes, it is arrogance......yours!

How mature

 

[TWAnr]

A simple "sorry, I thought
you ment something else" would have been the polite thing to do.

To address your accusation of me being bitter. . .

I am not bitter just resolved.  🙄
Many posts on this forum have set the
morter on that one.

Reread the thread. I am the one who came to MiAAmi's defense.

Here is his/her response to my post:

Thank you TWAnr.

I have never said anything negative about the TWA'ers on Furlough. Quite the opposite. I have wished everyone well and a quick return. If my 5 year statement was taken the wrong way please know it was about the length of the contract. I don't normally wish time away, but with this contract the sooner we get back to the table the better.

As far as your own bitterness is concerned, I have read dozens of your vitriolic anti TWAers posts on the 4M. The one I quoted was fresh, so it was handy. You are not so important as to merit my spending hours researching the 4M for your posting history in order to prove a long and ongoing pattern of your paranoia and bitterness.

 

[Hunter]

Oh Gigi,

Speaking about bitter, isn't this the case of the pot calling the kettle black. We are well familiar with your sentiments, as a very junior commuter, from your postings on the 4M forum.

Here is but one example:

I for one have no choice but to vote for John Ward.
I will not risk any possibility of losing even
one slot of my seniority.

gigi
ORD

Instead of turning the issue on my stand on senority, you should be
mannerly enough to acknowledge you jumped to an incorrect
conclusion and bashed a fellow poster. A simple "sorry, I thought
you ment something else" would have been the polite thing to do.

To address your accusation of me being bitter. . .

I am not bitter just resolved. 🙄
Many posts on this forum have set the
morter on that one.

Being determined to keep my seniority does not make me bitter.
I will fight to keep it, just as many are fighting to take it.

and don't bandy around the "it wont' hurt anyone" ka-ka. . .
I'm just junior enough that any slotting will hurt me. I am also
old enough to make finding another job at this point in my life
hard. Why do you think it is ok for TWA'ers to have my job and me
to have find something else, over a TWA'er having to find something
else?

That is arrogance. . .

Glad you enjoy the 4m. . .

Gigi -

The days of fighting are over. Unless and until you can present legal theories to justify the actions of APFA/AA/TWA, LLc. concerning their behavior in regard to the former TWA F/A's seniority integration, then you add nothing to the debate. Moreover, the debate in which we engage will have no effect on the outcome of the litigation. Having said that, I think that much understanding can grow out of healthy debate.

I understand that not everyone has training in the law so as to put forth such arguments, but putting forth opinions based on personal situations, individual definitions of fairness, etc. are irrelevant and only serve to throw gas on an already burning fire. It is not personal. I do not want your job. I want my job under the terms and conditions that AA promised to me if I agreed to their other demands. If, to abide by their promise to me, AA has to change the terms and conditions of your employment, I will have had no hand in it. Remember, it is not personal.

It might behoove you to read APFA's response to the former TWA F/A's amended complaint. There you will find the legal theories your union has adopted on your behalf. It might also be enlightening to read APFA's responses to the 10 other lawsuits pending against them. While not all of these suits are related to the seniority integration, I think you see why the former TWA F/A’s hold that John Ward, both through his action and inaction, has led APFA into a quagmire from which they may never escape.