First shot by NW pilots coming

[nycbusdriver]

Not even an option in this case.

NW has 5000 pilots to DL 7000. USAPA had the support of most east pilots who outnumber west by an enormous margin.

Besides USAPA has based their election on their beleife that the arbitration award can be overturned.
1. To overturn the award will be a legal battle in itself.
2. There is no guarantee that a new arbitration will not be called and they will find themselves back at square one.

Bottom line USAPA better deliver or it will implode spectacularly.

It is an option if the NW pilots get cracking before the NMB declares them a single group with DL pilots. NW could dump ALPA and at least have the advantage of NOT being subject to the whimsy of ALPA merger policy, but have at their disposal the new federal legislation which would at least give them Allegheny-Mohawk protections (which have almost always gone DOH when arbitrated.)

Or, the NW pilot drag their feet and wait for the corporate transaction to take place and end up with their own version of the Nicolau award. (Of course, they can't actually get Nicolau as arbitrator anymore. ALPA removed him from their list of approved arbitrators almost before the ink was dry on his "award" the the US Airways pilots.)

Time's a wastin'!

 

[brokenwrench]

Yup, you are correct. They could jump up and down and hold their breath until they get DOH. Not going to happen.

OR, they could accept the DL offer that was used in the Delta Western merger. Relative seniority and a raise, plus fences for the 47 drivers at NW and the 77 guys at Delta.

With oil at 118 bucks a barrel and rising a raise and staying at the same relative position in the pilot group does not seem like a bad deal to me.

Beats following the "east" US pilot model. Lets just fly are BK contract and hope for better later.

 

[nostradamus]

Yup, you are correct. They could jump up and down and hold their breath until they get DOH. Not going to happen.

OR, they could accept the DL offer that was used in the Delta Western merger. Relative seniority and a raise, plus fences for the 47 drivers at NW and the 77 guys at Delta.

With oil at 118 bucks a barrel and rising a raise and staying at the same relative position in the pilot group does not seem like a bad deal to me.

Beats following the "east" US pilot model. Lets just fly are BK contract and hope for better later.

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Posted on: Nov 20 2006, 06:25 AM


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Brokenwrench

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You are correct on all points except for Pan AM AMT's. They got full credit for pay and bennies from day one but for bidding could only exercise 1/3 of time per year. After three years they had full credit.
Just FYI.

DOH is the ONLY way to go in this industry.



Mr Brokenwrench,


I am confused sir by the quote above Nov 20 2006 vs your quote today. This is called hypocrisy sir.

 

[brokenwrench]

Understand,
For clarity my DOH comment was referring to AMT's.

Pilots, I do not think I have to tell you, are a unique group. If an AMT after a merger were bumped from days to swings due to DOH integration would not see a material change in his/her W-2.
If a pilot were bumped from a 67 Capt. to a 57 FO his W-2 would be materially impacted.

I hope this clears up my position on relative seniority as it relate to pilots.

 

[lineguy43]

Understand,
For clarity my DOH comment was referring to AMT's.

Pilots, I do not think I have to tell you, are a unique group. If an AMT after a merger were bumped from days to swings due to DOH integration would not see a material change in his/her W-2.
If a pilot were bumped from a 67 Capt. to a 57 FO his W-2 would be materially impacted.

I hope this clears up my position on relative seniority as it relate to pilots.

So you think that the pilots are a unique group regarding this issue?? What about the AMT who maybe might not lose anything paycheck wise but he might have to go to another state to keep his job because his "new" seniority won't hold the the domicle he is in that will cut into his paycheck bigtime. Hardships happen to ALL work groups not just the pilots.. They might take a bust in pay but they still can live anywhere they want if they choose to commute. Try to commute on a 40 hr week with only 2 days off and NOT have jumpseat priviledges like the flight crews have and have to fight for open seats. DOH is the only fair way..But you will never make everyone happy no matter how it pans out..

 

[brokenwrench]

So right on the last comment, "you will never make everyone happy.."

As an AMT I feel DOH is the only way to go.

As an observer I can see how relative seniority for the pilot group is the best of the possible scenarios for merging that particular groups list. This is JMHO. Again from an outside observer perspective the NW pilot group is being unrealistic if they expect DOH, which would disproportionately help NW pilots, and raises to bring them up to DL rates.

Good Luck to all of labor over the next 3-5 years. It will get worse before it gets better.

 

[700UW]

None of which alters the fact that HP bought US.

Even ATW agrees:
http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=10335

And here is what the SEC and US/HP say on the 10K report:

Selected Consolidated Financial Data of US Airways, Inc.

The selected consolidated financial data presented below under the captions “Consolidated Statements of Operations Dataâ€￾ and “Consolidated Balance Sheet Dataâ€￾ as of and for the years ended December 31, 2007, 2006, three months ended December 31, 2005, nine months ended September 30, 2005, year ended December 31, 2004, nine months ended December 31, 2003 and three months ended March 31, 2003 are derived from the audited consolidated financial statements of US Airways. In connection with the combination of all mainline airline operations under one FAA operating certificate discussed further in Item 7, US Airways Group contributed 100% of its equity interest in America West Holdings, the parent company of AWA, to US Airways. As a result, America West Holdings and AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. This contribution is reflected in the US Airways consolidated financial statements as though the transfer had occurred at the time of US Airways’ emergence from bankruptcy at the end of September 2005. Thus, the full years 2007, 2006 and three months ended December 31, 2005 are comprised of the consolidated financial data of US Airways and America West Holdings. For periods prior to September 30, 2005, the financial data reflects only the results of US Airways. The selected consolidated financial data should be read in conjunction with the consolidated financial statements for the respective periods, the related notes and the related reports of US Airways’ independent registered public accounting firm.

See it was a merger with US Airways/US Airways Group being the owner.

More:

Item 7. Management’s Discussion and Analysis of Financial Condition and Results of Operations

Background

On September 26, 2007, as part of the integration efforts following the merger, AWA surrendered its FAA operating certificate. As a result, all mainline airline operations are now being conducted under US Airways’ FAA operating certificate. In connection with the combination of all mainline airline operations under one FAA operating certificate, US Airways Group contributed 100% of its equity interest in America West Holdings, the parent company of AWA, to US Airways. As a result, America West Holdings and AWA are now wholly owned subsidiaries of US Airways. In addition, AWA transferred substantially all of its assets and liabilities to US Airways.

 

[Ch. 12]

Let's just say "who cares" and call it consolidation. Fact is US, like TW, could not have operated any longer on their own therefore obviously wasn't in the business to acquire anybody. HP, being in the better position acquired/merged/was taken over by US...whatever you want to call it. It was one "strong" company and one so weak that it was getting ready to shut down. Trying to label the transaction one way or the other right now is just a pride game. Who cares? The carriers are combined...like oil and water. I think we could move the last 3.5 pages of this thread to the "Is it really relevant past one's personal pride?" forum.