Firearm discharges on US Airways flight

[birdstrike]

 

[roabilly]

This incident just made ABC World News...at 6:40 PM !

No matter who was at fault.. we don't need the bad press....wish it would'a been South West !

 

[nycbusdriver]

Here is a pilot whose career is in jeopardy. Right now all we know is a gun went off. Not sure how, why....etc.
The press is going nuts, and this is another black eye for good ol USAirways. This poor guy is going to live with this one for a while. It will put added stress on him and his family as USAirways, FAA, Homeland Security all try to come down on him, with the your guilty until proven innocent process.

So how would USAPA handle this? What services do they have to offer for this kind of predicament?

USAPA has every service that ALPA offers in place and ready on April 17. USAPA would handle it exactly the way ALPA would.

Do they really have the power to stand up to our company and defend the pilot?

USAPA will have every bit as much power to stand up to the company as ALPA did. In fact, I would prefer having a USAPA paid lawyer who would probably not have any loyalties to the ALPA national organization and may be influenced to let this USAirways pilot take a dive for the good of the national pilot group.

Will USAPA have the resources to defend this guy?

Yes. On day one USAPA will have everything in place. Once elected bargaining agent, USAPA will be entitled to the dues money. Banks know this is a virtually guaranteed source of income, so any credit necessary to cover immediate needs has already been offered. Financial and other institutions are chomping at the bit to become vendors for USAPA.

Loss of license insurance when the FAA slams this guy?

Somehow I don't think so.

This one is priceless. Are you even a pilot? I suspect not because you have no clue as to what Loss Of License insurance is, and is not. Loss of License deals strictly with medical disqualification of a pilot. It has nothing to do with the FAA revoking or suspending your license. As a bit of further education, USAPA is offering the exact same Loss of License insurance coverage as ALPA with no medical requalifying required. Harvey Watt Insurance of Atlanta has already agreed to provide this coverage for USAPA pilots. BTW, Harvey Watt INVENTED airline pilot loss of license insurance.

I just don't see any infastructure in place to handle the many facets ALPA handles.

Simply because you are not paying attention. http://www.usairlinepilots.org/ Go there and learn something.

ALPA National and our LEC/MEC aren't perfect, but at least it comes with services that can handle a case like this.

USAPA doesn't have the organization, talent, skillset, or financial backing to do defend pilots like ALPA has.

But hey there's always prepaid legal services...it might be time to get it if USAPA is voted in.

There is a single, perfect word that describes your post. It's a very "hot button" word, so I won't use it here. I will simply post the dictionary definition and see if it doesn't describe most everything you said:

1. uneducated in general; lacking knowledge or sophistication;
2. uneducated in the fundamentals of a given art or branch of learning; lacking knowledge of a specific field;
3. unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge;

 

[AluminumEnemaTime]

OUCH! Was his last name Phife?

Here is his picture, I believe you had the spelling wrong.

 

[luv2fly]

negligent discharge two words for incompentance

def.adj..Incompetence is the inability to perform some task.

Take for example, your spelling. Oh the irony.

 

[sharktooth]

USAPA doesn't have the organization, talent, skillset, or financial backing to do defend pilots like ALPA has.

Actually, were you to visit the web site you would see that every insurance program is at least mirrored with its counterpart with ALPA, mostly better. The FAA interface, both security and medical, is composed of former ALPA people.

ALPA does not "defend" pilots. They contract people who do the defending. Think of ALPA as a franchisor. They are like the outsourced technical help in India.

With USAPA, however, your help will be personal and therefore, much more effective. There will be no national agenda that could leave you high and dry.

 

[N903AW]

View attachment 7347

"Nothing that a little duct tape can't fix!"

 

[Rudy]

It still amazes me that there are people who say, "We shouldn't trust the pilots with guns". I'm now 55, but when I was 22, the government saw fit to trust me with a security clearance, and the training to fly an F-4 Phantom with nuclear delivery capabilities.

Amazing......

 

[Pilot692]

Here is a pilot whose career is in jeopardy. Right now all we know is a gun went off. Not sure how, why....etc.
The press is going nuts, and this is another black eye for good ol USAirways. This poor guy is going to live with this one for a while. It will put added stress on him and his family as USAirways, FAA, Homeland Security all try to come down on him, with the your guilty until proven innocent process.

So how would USAPA handle this? What services do they have to offer for this kind of predicament?
Do they really have the power to stand up to our company and defend the pilot?
Will USAPA have the resources to defend this guy?
Loss of license insurance when the FAA slams this guy?

Somehow I don't think so. I just don't see any infastructure in place to handle the many facets ALPA handles.
ALPA National and our LEC/MEC aren't perfect, but at least it comes with services that can handle a case like this.

USAPA doesn't have the organization, talent, skillset, or financial backing to do defend pilots like ALPA has.

But hey there's always prepaid legal services...it might be time to get it if USAPA is voted in.

Without a doubt, the biggest pile of bullbleep I've seen on this board since its inception.

This isn't even worth the time typing a reply. I'll just leave it at this: ALPA ran out of truth some weeks ago. All they have are fear and outright LIES, and they are running out of even those fast. Ask the LTD pilots.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

It still amazes me that there are people who say, "We shouldn't trust the pilots with guns". I'm now 55, but when I was 22, the government saw fit to trust me with a security clearance, and the training to fly an F-4 Phantom with nuclear delivery capabilities.

Amazing......

Thank you for serving our nation.
You may be 55 now, but you were observed, watched, trained and tested over and over before you were turned loose on that bent winged bug sucker, weren't you? For all the uiformed services do for their personnel the most important is that they train you to do your job. It is a shame that commercial airline management can't grasp that simple concept.

 

[lostplanetairman]

FFDO here.

It is extremely difficult to discharge accidentally. I would say it is impossible, but I'm giving room for a crazy combination of circumstances to rate it as "extremely".

The individual hit the trifecta in my opinion:

1) In trouble with the company;
2) In trouble with the TSA'
3) In trouble with the FAA.

I'm sorry it happened and don't wish to see it happen again.

 

[FA Mikey]

A discharge while holstering is not accidental. It's negligent.

Well said! Without a threat, why was his finger on the trigger? That action is just begging for trouble, and goes against the very basic safety rules of handling a firearm.

 

[allstrike]

It still amazes me that there are people who say, "We shouldn't trust the pilots with guns". I'm now 55, but when I was 22, the government saw fit to trust me with a security clearance, and the training to fly an F-4 Phantom with nuclear delivery capabilities.

Amazing......

When I was 22 I had a secret clearance and a nuke...lol to hang on your F-4.And my guns have never gone of without my finger on the trigger.The only thing this guy did right was not look down the barrel.Looking at the picture it seems the gun was pointing to the left,Being held in the right hand the ejection port would be pointed away from the holder.....cleaning hu.Man stick to just flying please.

Anyway I think its a good Idea for the pilots to carry,I think all fed license holders should be able to carry,the only sad thing is.

Why does it have to be US in the news again!!!

 

[767jetz]

IIRC, the ammunition issued to sky marshals and FFDO's is not a normal type of bullet. It is FRANGIBLE...

Where are you getting this from?????? You are obviously not an FFDO. So I would caution you to make statements you know nothing about.

First of all, let's all remember that any factual information about the FFDO program, including SOP's pertaining to weapon handling and carriage, fire arm type, ammunition type, etc. is Sensitive Security Information, and as SSI it is only given out on a need to know basis. Anyone who is not an FFDO does not know what they are talking about. And the FFDO's who do know will not reveal any specifics.

It's not a retention holster. It does however have a hole, just behind the trigger, where a padlock shank is inserted. The tolerances are very tight and there have been cases where the padlock shank ended up in front of, instead of behind the trigger.

Agreed. And since there is a possibility of the shank being on the wrong side of the trigger,there is potential for an AD. But as I said above, this is probably TMI for a public forum.

I fail to understand how you can cite neglient protocol when you don't know what protocol you are talking about. That is an assumption! It would be "MY" assumption that there is nothing written stating that the armed individual is supposed to "store" the weapon during decent or on final approach. Your logic is unclear to me.

Before spouting off about someone else's negligence, you should consider that either you don't have all the facts, or you simply haven't thought of all the possibilities. Without getting into a discussion about SSI, rest assured that there certainly are a rare set of circumstances that combined, could produce and accidental discharge without having your finger on the trigger. Of course following SOP's to the letter should avoid this situation. But it is not impossible. There are some inherent flaws in the system, which will not be discussed here.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Well said! Finally, someone that gets it!