Firearm discharges on US Airways flight

[sharktooth]

Well said! Without a threat, why was his finger on the trigger? That action is just begging for trouble, and goes against the very basic safety rules of handling a firearm.

I know it must be difficult to think of other possibilities, but, why do you think his finger was on the trigger? What condition(s) drives that as an absolute? I mean, you may be correct in the end, but doesn't our society, as a rule, place judgement on hold until the facts are known?

 

[ringmaruf]

Have to love that the "hometown" paper makes sure to blame an East pilot.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles...ays0325-ON.html

Given the route, and the fact that the flight operations of US Airways and America West aren't yet merged despite their merger in 2005, he is based on the East Coast, not Phoenix.

 

[cageyjames]

Speed holes make the airplane fly faster.

 

[N965VJ]

I’ve always been amused by the folks that are horrified to discover that concealed firearms can be carried by folks other than the police or military.

Last I checked, the vast majority of States are “Shall-Issueâ€￾ concealed carry permits, and the trend continues, for ordinary citizens.

 

[Twicebaked]

Sadly, this made it on Jay Leno tonight. I was sure it would have.

Just another reason for US to look like the laughing stock of the industry.

 

[Frank Bama]

[edited- this is not a union thread]

 

[FWAAA]

First of all, let's all remember that any factual information about the FFDO program, including SOP's pertaining to weapon handling and carriage, fire arm type, ammunition type, etc. is Sensitive Security Information, and as SSI it is only given out on a need to know basis. Anyone who is not an FFDO does not know what they are talking about. And the FFDO's who do know will not reveal any specifics.

Looks like nobody told HK to keep the secrets:

Heckler & Koch Defense Awarded the Largest Pistol Contract in Law Enforcement History

Heckler & Koch Defense Awarded the Largest Pistol Contract in Law Enforcement History Sterling, VA. (August 24, 2004) Heckler & Koch Defense Inc. has been awarded a multi-year contract, with a potential value up to $26.2 million by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). It is intended to service all organizational elements/agencies under DHS. This contract ranks as the single largest handgun procurement ever by a U.S. law enforcement agency with a maximum quantity of 65,000 pistols. The models selected after an exhaustive and punishing battery of testing were the USP Compact LEM, the P2000 and the P2000SK subcompact. Each of the three models was chosen in calibers 9x19mm, .40 S&W, and .357 SIG, and employ HK's innovative LEM trigger system.

The U.S. Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was established as the largest investigative arm in the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). ICE unites the functions, resources, and legal authorities of several previously separate border and security organizations into an integrated homeland security agency focused on investigations and enforcement. ICE's mission is to prevent terrorist and criminal acts by targeting the people, money, and materials that support terrorist and criminal networks.

"This award confirms a significant commitment by the HK Defense Group to produce the most technically superior firearms in the world, without sacrificing flexibility and individual preference," said Wayne Weber, HK Defense Federal Operations Manager. "The exhaustive testing protocol not only included one of the most rigorous battery of reliability, environmental, accuracy, and durability tests a handgun has ever been subjected to, but with the most powerful selection of cartridges within each of the three respective calibers. The HK pistols earned a "Superior" technical rating after more than three million rounds of ammunition were fired through 690 handguns of 46 different models from five different companies during four months of testing."

"This contract further validates our commitment to expanding our U.S. market presence and supporting federal law enforcement in their homeland security duties," said HK Defense President Peter Simon. Heckler & Koch Defense is also the prime contractor for the U.S. Army's XM8 Assault Rifle program. This is the second major pistol contract awarded to Heckler & Koch in the past 13 months, including the TSA .40 caliber Pistol contract for the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program.

Heckler & Koch Defense is a leader in the design and manufacturing of technologically advanced firearms for military and law enforcement. It is the firm behind some of the most well known firearms of the last fifty years including the G3 rifle, MP5 submachine gun, USP pistol, and newer models such as the MP7 Personal Defense Weapon, the UMP submachine gun, and the G36 weapon system.

http://www.hksystems.com.au/news.htm

Lotsa people think they have secrets not known to others - very few actually do.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Where are you getting this from?????? You are obviously not an FFDO. So I would caution you to make statements you know nothing about.

Seems the majority of postings feel the dufus pulled the trigger and put a hole in the aircraft. Don't think that is SOP in anybody's book. Isn't it hard to obviously determine who is or is not an FFDO from reading a forum posting. Give your cautions to trigger-boy and don't worry about what you think we might or might not know.

 

[Carbon_Fiber]

View attachment 7347

Whatever the fallout, it could have been a whole lot worse! Supposing that the holstering scenerio is correct, it would appear that the Capt was holding the holster in left hand and the firearm in his right (suggesting that he is right handed). Suppose he was left handed....

 

[700UW]

check this out:

 

[700UW]

Pilot Grounded

 

[767jetz]

Seems the majority of postings feel the dufus pulled the trigger and put a hole in the aircraft.

Doesn't matter what a majority of postings say, feel, or think. There ARE a very rare set of circumstances that COULD result in an AD. Here's a clue: It has to do with the trigger locking device that is referenced in one of the articles above. That device has been a point of contention with FFDO's because of this VERY scenario. Obviously, the expression holds true that "if it can happen, it will." Don't be so fast to throw the "negligence" word around.

 

[ClueByFour]

First of all, let's all remember that any factual information about the FFDO program, including SOP's pertaining to weapon handling and carriage, fire arm type, ammunition type, etc. is Sensitive Security Information, and as SSI it is only given out on a need to know basis. Anyone who is not an FFDO does not know what they are talking about. And the FFDO's who do know will not reveal any specifics.

Firearm type, ammunition, and many of the regs on carriage and handling (specifically related to the cockpit restrictions) are on the websites of the weapon manufacturer, the TSA, congress, and the Airline Pilots Security Alliance. So your take, while basically saying "I know something you don't and are therefore correct by default" ain't gonna work.

Agreed. And since there is a possibility of the shank being on the wrong side of the trigger,there is potential for an AD. But as I said above, this is probably TMI for a public forum.

Sure. "Hey, it's possible, but we can't talk about it." Right.

Before spouting off about someone else's negligence, you should consider that either you don't have all the facts, or you simply haven't thought of all the possibilities. Without getting into a discussion about SSI, rest assured that there certainly are a rare set of circumstances that combined, could produce and accidental discharge without having your finger on the trigger. Of course following SOP's to the letter should avoid this situation. But it is not impossible. There are some inherent flaws in the system, which will not be discussed here.

If the holster snags the trigger, it's still negligent. You had it right with "following SOP's to the letter should avoid this situation." Manipulation of the holster, presumably, is trained and ingrained in the SOPs. Lack of an individual ability to do that without blowing a .40 or larger hole in the firewall is negligent.

The "we know why it could have happened, but cannot tell you" gambit was unique, but won't work, largely because the holster design is irrelevant.

 

[mtwphl]

Here is another one!

 

[flyin2low]

I'll bet he was showing it off to the FO when it was fired.