Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

Apparently Dave turned in.

How about you Sheldon? What is your take on what happened here? Please try and answer without your usual spinning BS.

thx,
breeze

C'mon, Sheldon,

The whole universe is awaiting your answer. Time is standing still until you answer the question..... "If the MOU legally states that it is SLI neutral, why did Marty file a DFRII?

All we need is an answer.....not another BS, spinning question.
breeze

(sorry, I was headed for bed, but thot I couldn't sleep without hearing your answer first......please put this to rest!)

 

[mrbreeze]

C'mon, Sheldon,

The whole universe is awaiting your answer. Time is standing still until you answer the question..... "If the MOU legally states that it is SLI neutral, why did Marty file a DFRII?

All we need is an answer.....not another BS, spinning question.
breeze

(sorry, I was headed for bed, but thot I couldn't sleep without hearing your answer first......please put this to rest!)

over?

 

[mrbreeze]

I will try to make this easier, clear....er, Sheldon.....

If the MOU stated that it was SLI neutral, why did Marty file the DFR II?

I don't know how to ask it in simpler terms.
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

I give up, after waiting for more than 2 hours for your response.....you only answer questions that further your cause, putting you in a position of wanting to screw another pilot, only to further yourself. I have no respect for you.

breeze

 

[Phoenix]

You just wait and see Breeze, the judge is going to award billions of dollars in damages because 98% voted in favor... But it's going to the 24 that voted "no" and it being paid by the ones who voted yes!

Watch, it will be fun and quick, because the lawyers promised! It's how lawyers like to roll, ain't it?

 

[Zone5]

OK, I will play.

As the usapa negotiator answer the question I aksed earlier how you would negotiate three lists. How would you place the three number one pilots on the three lists? How would you place the three junior captains on a combined list.

What do you consider the bottom of the east list. Varini premerger or the new hire. What list should the west pilots flying east be on and where should they be in relation to the thrid listers?

What do you consider the bottom of the APA list? Active pilots? Furloughed pilots? A/E flow through pilots?

Make your argument for negotiating a combined list. Keep in mind that it has to be fair for ALL US Airways pilots and it has to be acceptable to the APA pilots.

Make your case.

DOH, I hate that for you!


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

WOW! Clear, Metro, Trader, DCA (& others) all largely reply with fact, legal reference, logic & ethical retorts and we get this? The hysteria is building & building. Your concerns about us not paying Marty & Andy, and the dream of the dead Nicolau is getting pretty funny. SYIC kids. It's going to be fun & quick.

Funny, Dave. I have been posting overwhelming fact, legal reference, logic (ethics are like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder so I'll concede that). If you're so "righteous" how come Wake is a legal nulillity, Silver issued judgment for Count II and you don't even know the meaning of DICTA!

SYIC.

 

[cleardirect]

DOH, I hate that for you!


seajay

Epic fail.

That has been found to be a DFR.
Arbitrators have not used that method since 1986.
The APA has rejected that method.

Talk about lazy. I asked a few question and you can only come up with one thought. DOH.

You are going to be very disappointed with the results.

 

[Bill Brasky]

Epic fail.

That has been found to be a DFR.
Arbitrators have not used that method since 1986.
The APA has rejected that method.

Talk about lazy. I asked a few question and you can only come up with one thought. DOH.

You are going to be very disappointed with the results.

Uh oh. Somebody woke up the dreamers.

 

[luvthe9]

Funny, Dave. I have been posting overwhelming fact, legal reference, logic (ethics are like beauty, it's in the eyes of the beholder so I'll concede that). If you're so "righteous" how come Wake is a legal nulillity, Silver issued judgment for Count II and you don't even know the meaning of DICTA!

SYIC.

Your righ,t most of the west unterstand that this is over what's coming up is just one more formality. This little group has cost us all alot, they are no longer supported by a good many westies.

 

[Graceson]

Epic fail.

That has been found to be a DFR.
Arbitrators have not used that method since 1986.
The APA has rejected that method.

Talk about lazy. I asked a few question and you can only come up with one thought. DOH.

You are going to be very disappointed with the results.

Arbitrators have all used DOH ...with restrictions. USAPA will use DOH ...with restrictions. NIC simply delivered a DOH SLI with too many erroneous incongrences to make it ratifiable.

 

[snapthis]

Your righ,t most of the west unterstand that this is over what's coming up is just one more formality. This little group has cost us all alot, they are no longer supported by a good many westies.

Class is in session:

Righ,t: http://www.ehow.com/...-correctly.html

Unterstand: http://www.spellcheckonline.com/

A Lot or Allot ?

A lot
(two words) is an informal phrase meaning "many." It can take an adjective, for example, "a sizeable lot."

Example: Karl needed a lot of time for the job.​

Allot means "to distribute between or among." It has the same root as lottery.

Example: He allotted three breaks a day to everyone in the department.​

Alot does not exist as a word.

 

[snapthis]

Arbitrators have all used DOH ...with restrictions. USAPA will use DOH ...with restrictions. NIC simply delivered a DOH SLI with too many erroneous incongrences to make it ratifiable.

Ripe...

Misconceptions:

"MOU's are common, they are not contracts but merely agreements (with no consideration to make them contracts) so to greatly speed the process of forming a contract when the time arrives. (Ripe yet? Nope.)"

"The West Class still does not have a ripe case."


Proper Inerpretation:

"Actually a federal judge believed the case was ripe also.
Read the filing in AZ. Get back to me about what we filed? It is ripe."

Refer to DFR I:

In the words of Judge Tashima who authored the majority opinion at the Ninth Circuit in Addington I:“By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.” Addington v. USAPA, 606 F.3d 1174, 9th Cir. FN 1

Mootness and Ripeness

Mootness and Ripeness both deal with the existence of an actual controversy; mootness with whether the controversy has terminated, and ripeness with whether it is ready for adjudication. A case will be declared moot if the defendant dies during a criminal trial, if the plaintiff dies during a civil action and the action does not survive the death (usually by statute), and if the parties settle between themselves before a final judgement is entered. In these situations the issues are no longer redressable. Exceptions do exist to the mootness doctrine which allow a case to be heard: where secondary injuries exist that may be addressed by the court; cases which involve a wrong that is capable of repetition and likely to evade review; where an illegal practice has been terminated but it could be resumed at any time; and in a properly certified class action suit.
Cases are declared not ripe because the injuries are either too speculative or they may never occur. The rationale behind the ripeness doctrine is that a court should not issue premature judgements based on abstract disagreements. Abbott Laboratories v. Gardner, 387 u.s. 136 (1967). Ripeness typically arises when preenforcement review of a statute is sought, at which point to considerations are examined, and both must be present in order for an issue to be ripe. First, the plaintiff must show that a hardship is likely to be suffered in the absence of a judgement. This hardship could be caused by the law as it will eventually be applied, by collateral injuries, or because compliance with the law causes the hardship, and the only other choice is to break the law with the resulting consequences of being prosecuted. The second consideration is whether the issues are fit for a judicial decision. An issue that specific facts would assist in the judicail consideration will be found not ripe, while an issue is ripe when it is mostly a question of law, one which does not depend on context.

 

[Metroyet]

Class is in session:

Righ,t: http://www.ehow.com/...-correctly.html

Unterstand: http://www.spellcheckonline.com/

A Lot or Allot ?

A lot
(two words) is an informal phrase meaning "many." It can take an adjective, for example, "a sizeable lot."

Example: Karl needed a lot of time for the job.​

Allot means "to distribute between or among." It has the same root as lottery.

Example: He allotted three breaks a day to everyone in the department.​

Alot does not exist as a word.

Give Chubs a break. Typing with fingers covered in KFC grease is difficult...especially with plump, sausagy fingers.

 

[cleardirect]

Arbitrators have all used DOH ...with restrictions. USAPA will use DOH ...with restrictions. NIC simply delivered a DOH SLI with too many erroneous incongrences to make it ratifiable.

According to the APA arbitrators have not used DOH since 1986.

You are not going to get DOH in the next one.

I asked for your opinion how a three way would work. No answer except DOH.

Welcome to the DFR.