Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

Can you explain how exactly it wil directly affect US negotiations? And I wish I had your crystal ball, I sure wouldnt be working here if I did.

No crystal ball needed. Just knowledge of core leverage building strategies and models that have been around for years. First off, I told you and Roabilly that Delaney was a fraud and would do the exact sorta thing that he just did. I'm glad he finally fell on his sword and 141 rising finally fell on their own sword like I said they would but i'm no prophet. I go by leverage techniques and unfortunately Delaney subscribed to interest based negotiation strategy that preaches cooperation and leaves the membership out. Those techniques were our fundamental differences two years ago and it doomed the UA membership in this TA. I doubt any of our AGC"s are knowledgable about the various techniques used in Labor over the years that build leverage and keep a strong hand. I've done this for 30 years and was raised in it and although than core "Rah Rah Union babble" our agc's believe in labor but really are not educated on leverage building. Does the UA TA affect US AIRWAYS negotiations? Yes if it passes but not cataclysmic wise. BTW, what are our AGC's doing right now???? Are they sitting on their &^%* leaning on that goofy letter the IAM put out that talks big about "Contract first" or are they out there building solidarity movements and organizing pickets with membership participation that puts such a letter to motion and off the piece of paper? That's just for starters but no, they probably didn't even think of that one. One thing is for sure, your company coming to labor agreements with other unions on a foreign property is a slap in the face that should be met with more than a flimsy letter. If that's good enough for you then I'm truly sorry but a dopey letter is the same thing the IAM did at United. Go ahead, instead of learning something how about you continue to bust my balls and talk about all the nice phone calls you have from your AGC over a grievance. You just don't listen man. YOu just don't listen. Lose the hate and open your eyes sometime. regards,

 

[john john]

ograc,

How can the US members expect the same? Aren't there two (2) different NC's. Did the US NC negotiate the UA T/A and vise versa? You are throwing our NC under the bus before we even have anything to look at. Now correct me if I am wrong here. Didn't canoli and his merry band of misfits negotiate out current agreement? It was not our current NC, nor current leadership right? So how do you presume to already know the outcome of our negotiations? I get that you are not happy with the current leadership, but come on, seriously? I bet you are going to try and run for office again aren't you?

I have two words for you INDUSTRY STANDARD

 

[ograc]

Imformer,

All of the grievances that I have filed with my current AGC were handled in a timely manner. And I have none outstanding with him. Now I do have a few that I filed with MC that got lost in transition, and it is certainly is not the fault of my current AGC. ALL OF THEM. Nuff said on that. And I believe that Robbed's grievance was originally filed with the canoli misfits, so robbed please correct me if I am wrong here. Again, the current leadership is still trying to clean up the mess that the canoli misfits left when they were booted out of office.

Now, lets get to the UA T/A. Didn't the UA NC have to sign off on the T/A prior to the leadership giving the ok also? Why is it that none of you are blaming the NC for this atrocity? Are they not culpable also? Also, are/were you privy to any discussions that RD may have had with the UA NC about this T/A? And to answer your question about "what union man/woman would entertain contracting out all but your hub cities"?, well my first answer would be canoli. It all started with him did it not? And without having any other information regarding the PDGC of 141 and his thoughts of the UA/T/A, other than what you claim to be true, I will respectfully ask you to wait for my answer on that, until I can research it a little further.

PJ,
The outstanding, unresolved grievance out of my station was originally filed and has been exclusively handled by the elected "Rising" team. The "Canoli" leadership team, as you put it, was no longer in office. I'm willing to conceed the current CBA we are under is a direct result of past leadership; but the "Rising" team at some point must take accountability as well. No team is perfect. All have their shortcomings; but the Canali Team has been out of office for how many years now? Outside of the current CBA you can't blame the Canali team for everything. The "rising" team has been in office long enough now where they must face the accountability measures as well.

 

[robbedagain]

orgac i think your right that frank is overloaded but hopefully the grievances i have and the one your fellow has in ur station will be handled a lot faster now than it has been given the merger but who knows

 

[Tim Nelson]

orgac i think your right that frank is overloaded but hopefully the grievances i have and the one your fellow has in ur station will be handled a lot faster now than it has been given the merger but who knows

Frank is NOT overloaded. WTH are you guys talking about? There are hundreds of grievances that Frank himself is holding back. These grievances should have been handled aggressively and the Local Chairpersons are also suppose to be getting quarterly grievance reports of where each grievance is and if it was dismissed, etc. but Frank chose not to continue those reports. Ironically, Canale never missed the quarterly reports. If an AGC can't find time or strategy to handle a grievance that is 5 years old then wtf? Honestly, these guys have no idea what they are doing other than blindly supporting Delaney and management. regards,

 

[ograc]

Frank is NOT overloaded. WTH are you guys talking about? There are hundreds of grievances that Frank himself is holding back. These grievances should have been handled aggressively and the Local Chairpersons are also suppose to be getting quarterly grievance reports of where each grievance is and if it was dismissed, etc. but Frank chose not to continue those reports. Ironically, Canale never missed the quarterly reports. If an AGC can't find time or strategy to handle a grievance that is 5 years old then wtf? Honestly, these guys have no idea what they are doing other than blindly supporting Delaney and management. regards,

Tim,
Trying to be as diplomatic as possible. You know... as well as I... AGC accountability was a platform issue KA's team ran on. It is an issue the membership is entitled to and deserves. Unfortunately, based on the results of the most recent election, it will not come to pass. The membership will have to live with the consequences of their choice in the recent election. You get what you voted for. On a local level... it's getting more difficult to rally the troops for the IAM at such a critical juncture.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
Trying to be as diplomatic as possible. You know... as well as I... AGC accountability was a platform issue KA's team ran on. It is an issue the membership is entitled to and deserves. Unfortunately, based on the results of the most recent election, it will not come to pass. The membership will have to live with the consequences of their choice in the recent election. You get what you voted for. On a local level... it's getting more difficult to rally the troops for the IAM at such a critical juncture.

Ograc, the DOL has not ruled on the investigation that centered on illegal use of union funds. Usually the DOL will dismiss election complaints within 5-6 months. However, this investigation closed off in November but the DOL has continued to spend time in a determination ruling. It's in the 8th month at this point. I remain hopeful that all positions will have to be rerun based on both the illegal use of funds and possible carrier interference. Nonetheless, in a twisted way, more solidarity has been built and networked so that 141 rising is now done in any election. A strong network has unified and decided to take this district back. The network includes previous 141 rising supporters and the leadership teams of both Occupy and L4P. Any rerun would open up 40 spots in an election where we can just gut most if not all of the present group and install new officers who are focused on NOT walking into transition talks without FIRST getting a contract at US AIRWAYS. I know PJ and others insist that 141 rising didn't lie but so far there is no evidence that they did anything other than lie. I use the Hawaiian contract and the new United contracts as our witness. Gosh forbid we let them blow up the US AIRWAYS contract. Should have been once bitten twice shy after the Hawaiian contract but any US AIRWAYS member who wants to continue believing lies and HAS ALREADY SEEN 141 rising blow up contracts at Hawaiian and United will have himself/herself to blame if they want the same group to continue leading the US AIRWAYS talks. regards,

 

[robbedagain]

tim ive only met frank a few times during the 3 plus yrs but ive also text him and its difficult to get answers so i keep on textin him til he actually responds as far as the grievance goes i believe it should of been settled a long time ago but this is my first grievance that has gone as far as it has

 

[Tim Nelson]

tim ive only met frank a few times during the 3 plus yrs but ive also text him and its difficult to get answers so i keep on textin him til he actually responds as far as the grievance goes i believe it should of been settled a long time ago but this is my first grievance that has gone as far as it has

Frank is a good friend but I don't need good friends being as soft as Rich Delaney in there. We tried Frank and he didn't work out. Nor does he have the leadership, knowledge, and charisma to lead a group if needed. regards,

 

[robbedagain]

what we need is some people that would be strong n tough and not sell us out some that would actually speed things along when it comes to grievances

 

[Tim Nelson]

what we need is some people that would be strong n tough and not sell us out some that would actually speed things along when it comes to grievances

They have to be educated and know what the hell they are doing. Educated on labor, techniques, leverage building principles, etc. Need to know how to build a tribe, etc. And need passion of course. A lot more than someone who talks real nice and tells jokes on the phone. Tried to mentor these guys but they liked the $$ more than doing the right thing. regards,

 

[pjirish317]

Tim,

Once again, you prove only that if something is not done your way, or the way you think it should be done, it's wrong and should be changed to your way. Also people should think the way you do or they are wrong, in your eyes anyway, IMO. You are constantly trying to make the members believe that our NC will bring back a POS agreement to vote on. You do not know this for sure, it is mere speculation on your part. You cite the HA agreement, now the UA T/A, yet you have zero proof that our NC will bring back anything of the sort, or that they will shelf section 6 and go straight to transition talks. Come up with actual proof that what you say will come true, not just what you think, or "know" will happen. If you can't actually prove what you are saying, it is just pure political BS spin on your part. None of us will know how our section six (6) negotiations wil turn out regarding anything in our CBA, it is all just speculation right now, especially on your part, trying to kick the hornets nest before anything is even presented to the membership. And regarding MC and his lack of motivation after a disagreement with RD. Are you saying his did the membership he was supposed to serve a disservice and slacked off because of a spat with the PDGC? Really? I for one will reserve my judgement of our NC, and any forthcoming T/A they bring forth until I actually see it, not before. As we all should do. Not just get all fired up because a spinmaster says thats what we can expect. You are the one, although you can't see it or refuse to see it anyway, that is tearing down solidarity. Your "team building" skills, are tearing the US team apart at the seams. If you ever succeed in you quest to overthrow the IAM DL141, US now soon to be AA will be doomed just from your ego alone.

 

[Jester]

Tim,

Once again, you prove only that if something is not done your way, or the way you think it should be done, it's wrong and should be changed to your way. Also people should think the way you do or they are wrong, in your eyes anyway, IMO. You are constantly trying to make the members believe that our NC will bring back a POS agreement to vote on. You do not know this for sure, it is mere speculation on your part. You cite the HA agreement, now the UA T/A, yet you have zero proof that our NC will bring back anything of the sort, or that they will shelf section 6 and go straight to transition talks. Come up with actual proof that what you say will come true, not just what you think, or "know" will happen. If you can't actually prove what you are saying, it is just pure political BS spin on your part. None of us will know how our section six (6) negotiations wil turn out regarding anything in our CBA, it is all just speculation right now, especially on your part, trying to kick the hornets nest before anything is even presented to the membership. And regarding MC and his lack of motivation after a disagreement with RD. Are you saying his did the membership he was supposed to serve a disservice and slacked off because of a spat with the PDGC? Really? I for one will reserve my judgement of our NC, and any forthcoming T/A they bring forth until I actually see it, not before. As we all should do. Not just get all fired up because a spinmaster says thats what we can expect. You are the one, although you can't see it or refuse to see it anyway, that is tearing down solidarity. Your "team building" skills, are tearing the US team apart at the seams. If you ever succeed in you quest to overthrow the IAM DL141, US now soon to be AA will be doomed just from your ego alone.

PJ,

I am not really sure how many more examples of poor negotiations you would need in order to conclude the NC to be inept in their assignment. Should we count our own CBA as an example of a poor job by the NC? Oh, would that be the old regime? When does this regime man-up for HA and UA/CO? Yet the deafening silence of the attendance policy gives me little reason to feel confident about any future CBA. Any T/A that doesn't address outsourcing, attendance policy and furlough protections will earn it a "No" vote with me along with the New Direction team.

 

[ograc]

PJ,

I am not really sure how many more examples of poor negotiations you would need in order to conclude the NC to be inept in their assignment. Should we count our own CBA as an example of a poor job by the NC? Oh, would that be the old regime? When does this regime man-up for HA and UA/CO? Yet the deafening silence of the attendance policy gives me little reason to feel confident about any future CBA. Any T/A that doesn't address outsourcing, attendance policy and furlough protections will earn it a "No" vote with me along with the New Direction team.

I'm not as concerned about our NC as I am with the District Leadership and the International. I believe our current NC understands the importance of trying to reduce or eliminate outsourcing language in the next CBA. I believe they also understand there is dire need for improvement with just about every Article in the current CBA. After reviewing the UA TA however, I'm deeply concerned about how much support they will get in their quest for improvements from the District and International. District 141 and the International signed off on a UA TA that sells out countless jobs within and just after three years. Very disturbing. Leads me to believe our NC may not be on the same page as the District Leadership and the International. PJ is right... until we see something it's all speculation. Time will tell what speculation was accurate and what was not.

 

[pjirish317]

Jester,

You are correct in that our current CBA was not negotiated by the current leadership. Did our NC negotiate the HA CBA? By our, I mean the US guys. Same thing with UA, did our, US NC, negotiate that POS? No on both counts. All I am saying is, lets give OUR NC a chance and see. Is that such a hard concept to grasp? I will agree with you on the outsourcing and furlough protections, but have to disagree on the attendance policy. I do not want it any part of a CBA.