F/a Leader Says 'well Dry'

[PITbull]

Truth (not),

LOL....I swear you are Steve H. himself. Sick. For being just an observer not representing any group or anything, what do you know of Mollie and Teddy, or councils 70 and 40?

I do not listen to blatant deciervers who state thay don't represent management or any employee group, but instead throw some advice around.

No, There is no Mollie and Teddy telling union members that they need to save jobs. They tried that in summer 2002 by taking a position of "NO", because the "no furlough" language was on the table, when management specifically stated in negotiations that that language was no big deal and the only reduction in force would be through attrition!!!! Yea, 5,200 jobs later; gone in just 18 months!!!!!

Can I tell you that you can kiss my ............? Any jobs saved is up to these members. Hope you have a good working relationship with this labor group, you're going to need it to save your hide!

 

[ClueByFour]

I do not represent management or any employee group. but consider myself an ardent observer to your company. My friend, Pitbull, with all due respect, that statement is not accurate. Management are not a group of union busters, on the contrary, cultivating employee relations is the foremost precedence.

That's the single funniest thing I have ever read on this board.

How do you explain "When unions pounce, we roar" Mr. Jerry Glass?

You (CCY) could not lead a horse to water. Somebody must have been absent that day at the Gordon Bethune School of Kool-Aide.

And the day they talked about operational excellence, and the day they talked about strategic planning, and a few other days.

Anytime you guys want to have a debate with a real "informed observer" instead of taking cheapie shots at your unions' officials, let me know. I'll be more than happy to oblige.

 

[ktflyhome]

Pitbull: I think my last post was mis-interpreted. It was meant as sarcasm :blink:

 

[PITbull]

Oh, at the end of the day when I come home and come on here, I am so wiped out. Sorry

 

[youngblood]

I am not an AFA member but CWA and I know I speak for most when I say that your remark about management's agenda focusing on cultivating employee relations is a joke. EVERY union was open minded for the first two concessions. WE ALL GAVE - NOT ONCE - BUT TWICE. We kept our promises - management didn't. Enough is enough. The only reason others can say the naysayers are the minority is because most of those opposed to more concessions are scared they will lose their jobs if they express their opinion. It's time for the employees to step up to the plate and say no more. Hold management responsible for the failure of their business plan. They failed - we didn't. It's time for management to look out side of the box and stop passing the buck to the labor.

Piney,

In this arena I can't speak for everyone. My group has come up with creative ways to increase revenue. The fact is - managment doesn't listen

 

[diogenes]

do not represent management or any employee group. but consider myself an ardent observer to your company. My friend, Pitbull, with all due respect, that statement is not accurate. Management are not a group of union busters, on the contrary, cultivating employee relations is the foremost precedence.



Really?

I'd just love to hear you reconcile Messr. Chiames stating "...we are not seeking to outsource Airbus maintainence" with current events.

Merely one example of bad faith.

 

[diogenes]

For the 'bull, and kt, and dea, and teddy x,

Vaya con Dios, my ladies - our hopes ride with you.

Isn't it strange and sorry that the women are the ones making a stand while so called men are easily intimidated when dealing with Dave and his merry band of thieves.

Guess their daddies let their mommies push them around when they were children and now they believe it's the women's job to make a stand.

I will never look at a pilot the same, the days are gone when we as kids looked upon the pilots with awe and wonder, it has turned to disgust.

I've been noticing that for a while, too, and been thinking, how come?

Men, like the great apes (and dogs), tend to organize along a hierarchy. Once atop the pyramid, job one is beating up on contenders so as to remain at the top. So the leaders plan and allocate resources for maintaining the status quo, with any cooperation with the lower ranks coming in a distant second. As a matter of fact, such cooperation may be viewed as weakness.

If you think about it, this goes a long way explaining ALPA and IAM.

I see evidence of this phenomena in all of my dealings with male-dominated organizations. Dominance via intimidation is the soup de jour.

Now, after 20 years of marriage, I do not pretend to fully understand women, although I have come to understand the importance of chocolate. And even though female catfights can be VICIOUS, they do seem to consider the collective far better than most men. Evidently, it was a critical survivial skill back in the day, and a remnant of those skills remain.

Consider, the lower ranks of ALPA did not get to vote on concessions. They will not get a vote on MAA. IAM has sold out fleet service from the jump, and continues to do so. Additionally, even though IAM proclaims its 'democracy', that democracy is on paper only, and is not in practice. Ask any fleet OR mech how easy it is to vote out a sitting AGC - the Politburo had greater turnover.

Now, consider AFA. From these boards, it is evident leadership positions are really in play. I guarantee the AFA membership could take a MEC member down FAR easier than IAM can dispose of an AGC.

But you say, wait a minute - ALPA just replaced their MEC.

Wanta bet the old MEC gets all the dirty work done, and leaves the upstarts holding the bag? That's classic.

Anyways, that's why I think AFA has the stones - they do not buy into the Palace hierarchy BS, a language with which ALPA and IAM are all too familiar.

I think this also explains why the Palace targets AFA leaders by name. When was the last time you saw the company go after ALPA or IAM the way they go after AFA?

The Palace has estabished its dominance over ALPA and IAM - men are socialized to know and accept their place within the hierarchy.

The ladies, however, are another matter.

 

[blueoceans]

"Isn't it strange and sorry that the women are the ones making a stand while so called men are easily intimidated when dealing with Dave and his merry band of thieves. Guess their daddies let their mommies push them around when they were children and now they believe it's the women's job to make a stand.
I will never look at a pilot the same, the days are gone when we as kids looked upon the pilots with awe and wonder, it has turned to disgust. "


Ahhh.. a good, healthy dose of male bashing. Always good for a few laughs... I guess that makes "Dave and his merry band of theives" women for making their own stand.

 

[etops1]

it all come down to a final vote. yes or no. but please everyone vote. if you are for it or against it vote. alot of people did not vote last time. i spoke with a f/a who didn't and i told that person that they better vote this time around. we choose our future. not management nor the unions. we as employees have the power to guide our path . to decide what we want. we decide the consequenses or the benifits that this new plan will bring. when we are presented this plan. sit down and think it over. i know everyone is very emotional . i am myself. but we must decide for ourselves what we want. do not let anyone decide for you . do not let the posters on here decide for you. we as employees each have a voice. this is a very tough agonizing and emotional time for us and our company. but we have the power to choose the path we want. vote.

 

[ktflyhome]

etops1: I have a strong feeling that this time around for F/A it will be taken more seriously than ever before. We have been given a Major Reality check and got bamboozled. Alot of the new hires/junior F/A that are no longer here voted yes. They were in fear of losing their job, well guess what they did anyway. All I can say, is that they better make me an offer, I can't refuse.

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of trust for Management or AFA out there on the line. Yet, it all honesty, F/A are coming back around to supporting their Union Reps. There has been a lot of talk lately about a certain few Reps who are gaining a lot of respect for ACTUALLY have our F/A's interest at heart.

 

[diogenes]

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of trust for Management or AFA out there on the line. Yet, it all honesty, F/A are coming back around to supporting their Union Reps. There has been a lot of talk lately about a certain few Reps who are gaining a lot of respect for ACTUALLY have our F/A's interest at heart.

A phenomenom NOT occurring at ALPA right about now!

 

[diogenes]

"Isn't it strange and sorry that the women are the ones making a stand while so called men are easily intimidated when dealing with Dave and his merry band of thieves. Guess their daddies let their mommies push them around when they were children and now they believe it's the women's job to make a stand.
I will never look at a pilot the same, the days are gone when we as kids looked upon the pilots with awe and wonder, it has turned to disgust. "


Ahhh.. a good, healthy dose of male bashing. Always good for a few laughs... I guess that makes "Dave and his merry band of theives" women for making their own stand.

Hi Blueocean,

No bashing intended - I'm your standard issue, hetro-WASP male.

Not saying women are better, just different. That difference is currently serving them well, however.

And as Socrates said, "know thyself."

If we don't know our weaknesses, how do we get better?

After each pratice and show the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels put on, they meet for an after-action critique and analysis. No holds are barred, and rank is not an issue.

This is one reason they are the very finest at what they do.

 

[Light Years]

If we're comparing cultures on the airplane, I think it goes beyond sex or sexuality. Generalizing here, there is a difference in personality types between flight deck and cabin crew, simply because of the nature of thier chosen profession.

Flight attendants tend to be more social, and are used to working and relying on a team usually made up of strangers. Pilots have a pretty established system of accomplishments and achievements that determine thier position, flight attendants don't. Pilots might be better at solving technical problems, while F/As may be better with situational and people problems. Pilots make much more money but sacrifice much money and time (alot of social-charactar building time). Pilots often come from military or rigid backgrounds. Flight attendants make much less money, and usually come from either customer service or medical background (more human contact). From a union perspective, pilots connect a great deal of authority and entitlement to thier work. Flight attendants tend to champion equality and solidarity.

Pilots, for the most part, are white males. Flight attendants are mostly women (but not as high a percentage as pilots are white males), and generally a diverse group with much more minorities (race, sex, orientation, and nationality). Flight attendants are more likely to be liberal and be activists.

Again, generalizations, but all stuff I've seen covered in CRM studies.

 

[diogenes]

Hello, Light Years, I concur with your assessment. There are multiple determinants that make us what we are.

Could it be that men are drawn to the technical and hierarchies? Could it be that women are drawn to situations that prize social interaction? Lots of studies indicate this is so.

We have to remember these thoughts are generalizations, and there are multiple exceptions. Lots of gals make great pilots; lots of guys don't.

Biology is not destiny, but it sure gives a heckuva nudge!

With U's current sit-rep, it's the correct thing to do to give props to AFA - they're doing a great job.

And to totally dis ALPA.

 

[Light Years]

I agree dio (I hope you didnt think I was disagreeing- just expanding on it )

And I agree- mad props to the AFA!