F/a Leader Says 'well Dry'

[usfliboi]

Well Great ! We finally agree!! Now we can only hope for the " right " outcome for everyone in volved. But only the "final " vote will tell. If we ever have something to vote on and a company to work for !

 

[PITbull]

Actually, usfliboi, you have to back that thought up a bit....

flight attendants have to vote on going to the table to open up contracts BEFORE any vote can be taken on any possible T/A. To me, that's the right process for a concession #3 possibility.

And since some of your pals on here think like you, that the nay sayers are the minority, than you should have absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

[Baja4U]

I think Perry Hayes is correct! The AFA well is dry!

Dry when it comes to offering or discussing creative sloutions to complex problems.

Dry when it comes to dealing with the minority of the memberships shortfalls.

Dry when it comes to equitable distribution of dues resources! US dues actually subsidize your competition.

Indeed the AFA well is dry and will continue to stay dry.


I firmly believe that enlightened leadership would have allowed you to keep much of your wage concessions in exchange for work rule changes. It was IMO an excellent opportunity to demonstrate flexibility and forward thinking.
Change creates opportunity both positive and negative. Leaders pounce on those changes and create postive changes.

But as Mr Hayes stated "The Well is Dry" not because of the economy or Dave Siegel, but because of his FAILURE to act as a agent of change.

OK, Ktflyer, you may insult at your liesure. Don't use big words that you can't spell OK? Makes you look uneducated and perpetuates a stereotype.

DRY, DRY, DRY.....At least P. Hayes has an opinion that some of us believe in....NOT just someone talking out of the side of his head.
As far as an "agent of change", FAILURE IS AS FAILURE DOES", what has your "CEO" done for YOU lately??????

 

[diogenes]

It has long been my contention, and demonstrated to my satisfaction, that AFA has bigger stones than ALPA and IAM combined.

I think the direction of this country, and the state of the working class are hanging in the balance these next few years.

AFA is right at the fulcrum.

I totally support them, and pray they don't fold their hand, as ALPA is apparently doing. I've given up on IAM ever serving my interests.

Bob, here's something for you to consider. Your theory works if both sides can be relied upon to honor their obligations.

The Palace has shown no such inclination.

Or, if it's really mano a mano, then why shouldn't AFA rap them in the mouth with a pair of brass knuckles?

For the 'bull, and kt, and dea, and teddy x,

Vaya con Dios, my ladies - our hopes ride with you.

 

[756pro]

For the 'bull, and kt, and dea, and teddy x,

Vaya con Dios, my ladies - our hopes ride with you.

Isn't it strange and sorry that the women are the ones making a stand while so called men are easily intimidated when dealing with Dave and his merry band of thieves.

Guess their daddies let their mommies push them around when they were children and now they believe it's the women's job to make a stand.

I will never look at a pilot the same, the days are gone when we as kids looked upon the pilots with awe and wonder, it has turned to disgust.

 

[Piedmont4US]

I don't think the F/As need to do any sort of 'givebacks'.

Shoot, US is going to need more FAs

 

[756pro]

If Perry Hayes was a leader he would have stepped up and said essentially said to Siegel "If you're not going to lead, I am! Here's our latest proposal"

You take his play away and go public with more traditional union activities and Wall Street gets nervous and you have a NEW negotiating landscape. One that in my example might have put management on the defensive.

Wait. So a UNION leader needs to lead and run the company?

A UNION leader is to blame for the union busting tactics of a professional union breaking firm?

Take it to the public. You mean like Dave Siegel tries to do by giving labor a black eye in the press with his false statements?

Selling coping machines and running an airline do not mix and comparing the two doesn't make much sense, UNLESS, this is so deep it's simply beyond my comprehension?

OR, or you base it all on the fact everything is a lie, even contracts signed in good faith. So if those contracts are broken then that’s fair game and it’s the parties fault who signed them in good faith believing it would be honored. Is this what you’re saying?

 

[PITbull]

Whether on not you think Mr. Siegel is up to the task of running US Airways is moot really. The point is/was lack of vision and leadership on the AFA side. A little Sales 101 here.

When you are FIRST to present a proposal, in many cases YOU define the rules for that negotiation. Whether it's a copy machine or a union contract there is value in being first to the table.

This is especially true if you have something to present that is unexpected, different and creative. In being first you may have had to give a much smaller percentage of what you have given to date PLUS defined exactly what you will and WILL NOT give going forward.

AFA did NONE of that as near as I can tell. They stuck to the same broken model. Much like US Airways. Why wait for someone to lead? If Perry Hayes was a leader he would have stepped up and said essentially said to Siegel "If you're not going to lead, I am! Here's our latest proposal"

You take his play away and go public with more traditional union activities and Wall Street gets nervous and you have a NEW negotiating landscape. One that in my example might have put management on the defensive.

And Bob, you are out of your brain and definitely your element. That is not how union negotiations work. We are not in section 6. Basically, mangement is asking for concessions of our group and to open our contracts. We don't have to give up a thing. When you are first to give up a proposal, it indicates to management that there is no pain associated and you can go deeper. You can not show management your cards or what you value.

Under normal circumstances and a normal management team that would honor obligations and contracts, there is a normal negotiation process. With union busters who don't value contracts or the paper their written on, or employees, there is no negotiations. This mangement knows exactly what they want from the get go. The rest is a useless exercise.

Its management to explain to us what it is they think they need, and we, the members will ultimately decide how important that provision is and what impact it will have to our "quality of life" temporarily or permanent if we are to continue our employment with USAirways.

Your Sales 101 needs to be taken back to the xerox business. B)

 

[USAirBoyA330]

Thank you PITBull...you beat me too it. Some people really need to learn more about how things work before telling people they should be proactive about their wallet being vacuumed out a 3rd time.

 

[ktflyhome]

Piney Bob, You have finally said something that makes sense to me. I think I will contact a lawyer tomorrow and see If I can get all of my union dues back that I have paid since employed by USAirways. I might be able to retire sooner than I thought or at least leave something for my grandchildren. Thanks for the hint.

 

[756pro]

My beef has NEVER been with the F/A's individually. Their leaders are another story.

Your daddy must of been a union leader and slapped you around when you were a pup.

Irrational hate for something that doesn't affect you on any level doesn't compute and there is always a reason for everything.

I am sure you are not so naive as to believe that since everyone is so nice and wants what is best for everyone else that unions are a waste of time and money. NO, you don’t think that!

 

[PITbull]

Bob states: If you see a guy running at you with a bat do you wait until he hits you upside the head? And then decide how to respond (reactive) or do you pick up a chair and hit him with the chair first?(proactive)


PITbull responds: You hit a guy with a chair FIRST in a brall, and I promise you, that your "proactive stance will send you to a night in jail at least, and then some fines and a law suit would be in order.

Cut a better deal yourself, you say???? Yeaaaaaah.

Here's management's MO....."Labor, you have this deadline, here is what we want, and if you don't give.....liquidation of assets. Your choice". That is what this managment will say.

I say, "It is management that sets the stakes and the unrealistic expectations of demanding more from labor. So, if they don't get all they want, they need to make some serious decisions.

 

[The Truth]

With union busters who don't value contracts or the paper their written on, or employees, there is no negotiations.

I do not represent management or any employee group. but consider myself an ardent observer to your company. Pitbull, with all due respect, that statement is not accurate. Management are not a group of union busters, on the contrary, cultivating employee relations is the foremost precedence.

Some posters on this board do speak the truth. If I were an AFA member, I would recommend that the PIT/PHL f/a's send a strong message to their union leaders that they should listen to the plan with an open mind. Steven Hearn publicly stated to the media today that he would have an open mind concerning the business plan.

The union membership should inquire where are the public comments by Teddy and Mollie stating that they will have an open mind and do what is needed to save jobs. It is vital to have an open mind and give your company a chance to ensure that there is a future for all 27,000 employees.

The naysayers need to recognize the facts that each employee will encounter due to the tumultuous economic environment. I foresee that most employees will work with the company if it will save their jobs.

 

[PITbull]

Piney Bob, You have finally said something that makes sense to me. I think I will contact a lawyer tomorrow and see If I can get all of my union dues back that I have paid since employed by USAirways. I might be able to retire sooner than I thought or at least leave something for my grandchildren. Thanks for the hint.

Kitty,

Really, do you think that your union organization let you down? Do you really believe that 9 union reps control your destiny? Are the members left off the hook in all these concessions? Did 9 reps ratify the proposals or did 7,000 members vote? Keep in mind, both tentative agreements were NOT unanimous in recommending YES vote on the proposals.

 

[USAirBoyA330]

Uhhhh...and that's why Mr. Steve Hearn is on the way OUT in CLT. He will not be re-elected and is lucky he is not being recalled from his position.