Executive Bonuses

[Ken MacTiernan]

Actually they gave back a lot more than you did, so you're right it wasn't shared sacrifice.

Who is "they"? And exactly what did "they" give back?

Was it anything close to what I gave up? You continue to evade my point that ANY reward, be it bonuses/stock options, while I and others at AA exists under brutal pay & benefit concessions is simply WRONG! Why do you feel you must defend management's corrupt/immoral actions?

 

[Bob Owens]

OK, so the rank and file can have their $1.1 billion from their 38 million options but senior management can't have their (approx) $300 million from the April 2007 and April 2006 PUP payouts? Uh, oooook. Management gets zero and rank and file get over a billion.

Respect for the workforce? Recall UAL management's proposal last year to take 15% of the post-Ch 11 stock worth about $900 million. THAT was an outrage. So instead, they took about 8% worth about $480 million.

I have no idea whether management's "shared sacrifice" was equal or unequal. Several years of no or small raises plus paycuts (just like the rank and file).

Last year, 3 years after the concessions, management took about $100 million. In a couple months, 4 years after the concessions, they will grab another $200 million or so.

Meanwhile, the hourly workers took their $1.1 billion worth of stock options.

What's that about "equal" again?

You forget to mention that the rank and file gave up $1.8 billion/year for six years to get that $1.1 billion. So in other words they paid $10.8 billion for $1.1billion worth of stock.And thats only counting what it cost for the six years and not the long term losses which would likely easily be double that or around $22billion for $1.1 billion worth of stock. Lets also not forget that they have to pay $5/share for the stock, so that lowers the real value even more, so they got considerably less than $1.1 billion.You also foget to mention that management did get stock options, this cash payout is in addition to those options. So please spare us the theatrics about how poor management is getting nothing.

 

[Oneflyer]

Who is "they"? And exactly what did "they" give back?

Was it anything close to what I gave up? You continue to evade my point that ANY reward, be it bonuses/stock options, while I and others at AA exists under brutal pay & benefit concessions is simply WRONG! Why do you feel you must defend management's corrupt/immoral actions?

You're just not real bright are you? You ask who "they" is, then reference "they" ie management in the next paragraph.

Yes, they gave back salary too, more than you did since they make more than you. They also didn't take bonuses for 5 years and considering the stock plan was in a negeotiatied contract that YOUR union approved I fail to see how it was corrupt or immoral.

 

[Hopeful]

You're just not real bright are you? You ask who "they" is, then reference "they" ie management in the next paragraph.

Yes, they gave back salary too, more than you did since they make more than you. They also didn't take bonuses for 5 years and considering the stock plan was in a negeotiatied contract that YOUR union approved I fail to see how it was corrupt or immoral.

So their contract CAN'T be touched, but the unions' contracts can be touched OR ELSE!

PERCENTAGE WISE THEY DID NOT GIVE UP AS MUCH AS WE DID!
DID THEY LOSE VACATION? DID THEY LOSE FIVE HOLIDAYS?
DID THEY LOSE THEIR HOLIDAY PAY FOR THE REMAINING FIVE HOLIDAYS?
DID THEY LOSE SICK TIME? DO THEY GET HALF PAY FOR THE FIRST TWO SICK DAYS THEY USE PER OCCURRENCE?


SPARE ME THEY GAVE BACK MORE THAN WE DID!

 

[Oneflyer]

So their contract CAN'T be touched, but the unions' contracts can be touched OR ELSE!

PERCENTAGE WISE THEY DID NOT GIVE UP AS MUCH AS WE DID!
DID THEY LOSE VACATION? DID THEY LOSE FIVE HOLIDAYS?
DID THEY LOSE THEIR HOLIDAY PAY FOR THE REMAINING FIVE HOLIDAYS?
DID THEY LOSE SICK TIME? DO THEY GET HALF PAY FOR THE FIRST TWO SICK DAYS THEY USE PER OCCURRENCE?
SPARE ME THEY GAVE BACK MORE THAN WE DID!

I believe all management employees with a certain amount of years worked with the company lost vacation. Though I certainly doubt Arpey is taking his full allotment of vacation days.

They have 10, Eagle gets 5, how many do you and did you have?

The sick time issue is an attempt to get people to come to work and not use their sick time as vacation days, that isn't a problem with upper management as they come to work on a consistent basis. Spare me the speech I've seen the lost time reports.

They certainly gave back more in total salary and on a percentage basis, for management the greater your salary the greater the percentage you lost. I think it went as high as 25%, not certain though.

 

[Hopeful]

I believe all management employees with a certain amount of years worked with the company lost vacation. Though I certainly doubt Arpey is taking his full allotment of vacation days.

They have 10, Eagle gets 5, how many do you and did you have?

The sick time issue is an attempt to get people to come to work and not use their sick time as vacation days, that isn't a problem with upper management as they come to work on a consistent basis. Spare me the speech I've seen the lost time reports.

They certainly gave back more in total salary and on a percentage basis, for management the greater your salary the greater the percentage you lost. I think it went as high as 25%, not certain though.

Wrong!

The formula was percentage based upon 3 different levels of salary. i dont recall the exact formula, but it was something to the tune of 10% from 0-30000, the 5 % of 30-60.etc... I will tell u this, at the time of these cuts, using that fromula, a good mtnce SUPV friend of mine lost
about $5600 a year on his $72000 a year salary. I lost about $13000 a year based on salary alone..

So u may have seen the lost time reports, Ive seen what a supv lost!!!!!!!! LESS THAN HALF WHAT I LOST IN HARD DOLLARS ALONE

 

[Bob Owens]

They have 10, Eagle gets 5, how many do you and did you have?

You left out the fact that they dont report for work, yet get paid as if they did, on days like New Years, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas etc. So if they get 10 vacation days, figure its really 20 which is what I get after 20 years.

The sick time issue is an attempt to get people to come to work and not use their sick time as vacation days, that isn't a problem with upper management as they come to work on a consistent basis. Spare me the speech I've seen the lost time reports.

Oh really? And how is the half pay for the first two days working out for you?

I think it went as high as 25%, not certain though.

Oh, so as much as we took, not counting the bonuses of course. Its not unusual for executives to recieve bonuses that are in excess of most peoples salaries.

Do the 10Ks reflect these paycuts that you talk about?

Besides salaries dont really give a full picture of Executive compensation, after all its not unusual for exuectives to go for years without salary increases, after all they get paid so much they really dont need them and would prefer to be compensated in ways that can be better sheltered from the taxman.

When management said "They dont understand executive compensation" they were stating a wish and hoping that we never do.

 

[Hopeful]

Here's one article about AMR execs 2003 paycuts.

Just look at Dan Garton's pay reduction. He went from $520,000 a year to 467, 275. That was a loss of a little over $52,000 a year. That's around 10%.
I lost 17% in just salary alone







Posted 4/26/2004 5:49 AM Updated 4/26/2004 10:28 AM



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American Airlines executives get pay cuts
DALLAS (AP) — Top executives at American Airlines' parent took salary cuts in 2003, a year in which the company flirted with bankruptcy and lost $1.3 billion.

AMR chief executive Gerard J. Arpey and other senior officials took cuts in their base pay in April 2003, when the company was asking rank-and-file workers to accept pay and benefit reductions.

AMR said its ability to retain executives was being hurt because it has not paid bonuses since 2000, the last year the company was profitable, and many recent stock options are currently worthless.

Wracked by the weak economy and travel downturn after the 2001 terrorist attacks, AMR has lost more than $6 billion since the beginning of 2001.

"Since management compensation is so closely tied to the corporation's financial performance, these economic difficulties have resulted in a drastic decrease in the overall compensation for the corporation's key management talent," AMR said Friday in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Two chief financial officers and several lower-ranking executives have left since June 2002.

Arpey declined an increase in his base pay last year but still received more than he had in 2002 because of long-term incentive payments, according to the filing.

Arpey, who replaced Donald Carty as CEO in April 2003, was paid a salary of $535,275 and long-term incentives of $151,020 last year. By comparison, he was paid a $580,000 salary and got options for 184,000 shares in 2002, when he was chief operating officer.

Executive vice president Daniel Garton's salary was reduced to $467,275 from $520,000. He also received a long-term bonus of $151,020 and, unlike Arpey, got options on 84,000 shares of stock in 2003.

The next three highest-ranking executives also took salary cuts, and Carty's compensation declined, according to the company's filing.

Carty was paid $293,357, which the company said it owed him upon his retirement, and a long-term bonus of $374,580 and $127,440 in vacation pay. In 2002, when AMR lost $3.5 billion, his salary was $811,125.

In a separate filing Friday, AMR said it expects to contribute at least $433 million this year and $412 million next year to its defined-benefit pension plans. The company would have owed more, but under legislation approved by Congress this month, some companies with underfunded pension plans — including AMR — can defer part of their payments for two years.
Cop

 

[Oneflyer]

Wrong!

The formula was percentage based upon 3 different levels of salary. i dont recall the exact formula, but it was something to the tune of 10% from 0-30000, the 5 % of 30-60.etc... I will tell u this, at the time of these cuts, using that fromula, a good mtnce SUPV friend of mine lost
about $5600 a year on his $72000 a year salary. I lost about $13000 a year based on salary alone..

So u may have seen the lost time reports, Ive seen what a supv lost!!!!!!!! LESS THAN HALF WHAT I LOST IN HARD DOLLARS ALONE

I think you're wrong on the way the percentage goes, but again that was 4 YEARS ago.

They also laid off about 1/4 of the management workforce. YOUR UNION chose to take a big salary cut to keep jobs, many of which were then lost due to rising fuel prices.

You also have to keep in mind that management isn't paid OT, so when you have job losses that work just gets picked up by someone else, so you end up working 9 or 10 hour days instead of 8.

 

[Hopeful]

I think you're wrong on the way the percentage goes, but again that was 4 YEARS ago.

They also laid off about 1/4 of the management workforce. YOUR UNION chose to take a big salary cut to keep jobs, many of which were then lost due to rising fuel prices.

You also have to keep in mind that management isn't paid OT, so when you have job losses that work just gets picked up by someone else, so you end up working 9 or 10 hour days instead of 8.

We were told that OUR concessions would avoid layoffs!

GUESS WHAT? THEY STILL HAD LAYOFFS!

Guess what? At JFK theyre hiring more and more supervisors who are tripping over themselves...

 

[Bob Owens]

They also laid off about 1/4 of the management workforce. YOUR UNION chose to take a big salary cut to keep jobs, many of which were then lost due to rising fuel prices.

No, our "union" is being bribed by the company, they agreed to meet whatever terms the company demanded in order to keep those payments coming. The company laid off people in addition to eliminating people as they leave. Who do you think is expected to work more as these people leave?

 

[Oneflyer]

We were told that OUR concessions would avoid layoffs!

GUESS WHAT? THEY STILL HAD LAYOFFS!

Guess what? At JFK theyre hiring more and more supervisors who are tripping over themselves...

Fuel prices doubled! Things changed that weren't expected, which resulted in job losses.

How hard is it for you to understand that to upper management or anyone at HDQ there is no preference for hiring Supervisors over union workers. They could care less, they aren't our "Brothers" in the management union.

 

[Hopeful]

Fuel prices doubled! Things changed that weren't expected, which resulted in job losses.

How hard is it for you to understand that to upper management or anyone at HDQ there is no preference for hiring Supervisors over union workers. They could care less, they aren't our "Brothers" in the management union.

You need to visit JFK. We are so short mechanics, they're averaging about 30 mechanics a day overtime covering all three shifts

 

[Bob Owens]

Fuel prices doubled! Things changed that weren't expected, which resulted in job losses.

How hard is it for you to understand that to upper management or anyone at HDQ there is no preference for hiring Supervisors over union workers. They could care less, they aren't our "Brothers" in the management union.

Fuel prices going up came as a suprise? There definately needs to be some changes up top!

 

[Hopeful]

Let me add this, ONEFLYER!
Prior to the concessions, you never heard this passionate argument about executive compensation. It might have been mentioned when the news reported it, but it was never argued and discussed as vehemently as it is now. You say the execs took cuts, but what they get in PUP pay, they more than got their losses returned to them.
What do we get? We get the "YOU'RE LUCKY TO HAVE A JOB" and "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT HERE, WHY NOT LEAVE" speeches. Oh, I forgot, we get another $.43 an hour raise in April.

I tell you what, If Redding and Arpey and the rest of em feel they can make more elsewhere, WHY DON'T THEY LEAVE?

How about this, Oneflyer?

We ALL took pay cuts, but only the top managers are sharing in the rewards! And no need to mention our stock options! It no where makes up for what we lost, unlike the executives.