APA Issues Statements on New Executive Bonuses

[StraaightTaalk]

As did many of ours.. Of course, Capt. Bill Compton, (one of my all time favorites, sarcasm intended) pretty much forced his wife to cross. I always thought it "strange" that the labor leaders of another union on the property had crossovers for spouses. Personally, I would have said, "and the horse you rode in on" but then that is why I'm divorced and working in social services and Bill's wife is driving the new Mercedes and living off the spoils of the golden parachute.

In 35 years I have only had a couple of pilots I wanted to hang but they were in control of the aircraft so I refrained.

We all had to come to terms with strike decisions and we have been ok in that area. To work together, to go through Flt 800 together, and to lose our careers together has been the great equalizer.

You are getting way too senstive..My comment was meant "tongue in cheek" due to the contentious exchange.

I completely understand that adversity often brings unity, and the TWA people suffered more than most.

Your comment, however, did not come off as "tongue in cheek."

The pilots already get fed by the company. The flight attendants do not.

 

[ArtTang]

Quite the opposite MiAAmi. With the AA FA's, number two on the "unofficial inflight" duties list is to come up with an infinite amount of reasons why AA pilots are inferior to the FA's. (one example, the Brazil preflight crew sandwiches-"crew" means FA's, pilots will not be offered any)

Number one on the list is to shove every chocolate from the box meant for 1st class down their throats before gear up. :unsure:

By the way, ask around and see how other airlines handle their Pilot/FA deadhead issues.

There are bad eggs in both work groups. All I can say is we should avoid falling into the trap of being divided and conquered because that's exactly where management likes us to be.

As for the flight attendant strike in '93, I remember the pilots were terrific. So many others...from US mail deliverers to workers at Dunkin Donuts...extended support to the flight attendants during our strike as well (at least that's the way it happened in Miami).

As for the issue of deadheading: I have always said the best way to resolve the problem is to go by strict seniority. I don't see why a flight attendant with 40 years should sit in coach while a first officer with 10 years sits in first just because his name appears on the n/s list first. Seniority is the only fair way to go about it.

People, all three unions are rapidly approaching contract openers. It would benefit us all if we focused our energy and rage against the common source of our woes instead of eating each other alive.

Peace,
Art Tang
IMA

 

[kirkpatrick]

I do remember hearing however about how aggressive the TWA pilots were in crossing your picket lines. At least ours helped us out somewhat when we went on strike.

But they still flew the planes, right?

Many of our pilots were sympathetic. I recall pilots bringing crew lists to strike headquarters and several who called in sick. They had a No Strike clause and their hands were pretty much tied.

MK

 

[The Goose]

Somehow I get the feeling the Union's on the Property are not on board with the Overland Resource Group Love Fest anymore.

We pay bonuses to keep the top brass from leaving and going to another company, yet all the top brass does is hire some consulting firms instead of running the company themselves for their pay.

Now it appears the consulting firm has created a situation that is not going to get any better anytime soon.

This one I can agree with 100%.

Steve Luis issued a statement yesterday re: the 'working together' (has a ring like 'right to work') fecal matter. I liked what I read, but the proof will be in actions. Hopefully, if he is sincere and really has the intent to make changes, he'll also get the word out to the membership about the International having the inevitable 'come to Jesus' meeting with him re: the fouling up of their plans if he actually follows through.

Hope so ...

 

[Bob Owens]

John Darrah said it best in his "farewell" letter in Flightline:

Perhaps if he had embraced the technology instead of ignoring it he could have had it where info was exchanged and accountability and civility was maintained.

Seriously, the pilots can bluster all they want to, but the reality is if it looks like a strike is inevitible, AMR won't need much more of an excuse to march into bankruptcy court with a pre-packaged debt restructuring to keep the banks and major creditors happy. Then, not only do you see your lump sum f***ed with, but AMR gets a chance to freeze your pension, eliminate scope, and who knows what else.

Or maybe they will have to settle. "$6 billion and you're broke?"

If past experience is any indicator, customers won't care if you're bankrupt, and the company will come out it somewhat unscathed.

Thanks for pointing out that the public could care less about workers, therefore the employees are justified in feeling the same way towards them. Did UAL come out unscathed when their pilots struck? The fact is that this industry is facing a labor shortage. There arent a whole lot of pilots out there waiting for recall, even most of the mechanics are turning down recall and as they get lower on the list the rate of rejection is likely to incraese. If workers simply stopped working OT there would be massive cancellations and delays.The airlines have made themselves more vulnerable to labor because they are run leaner and they have made the job much less desireable, in the meantime security standards futher narrow the field of potential employees.

There are a lot of people who like to hang out the "we didn't declare bankruptcy" banner when it's convenient, but in private are probably still second guessing the decision not to file back in April 2003.

I still say we should have voted NO. With each passing day (and every billion added to AMRs balance sheet) I see I was right.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I still say we should have voted NO. With each passing day (and every billion added to AMRs balance sheet) I see I was right.

Bob, we did vote no. But our vote didn't count. :angry:

 

[upsilon]

Typical Skygod bluster. I guess it's time for "Feed The Pilots" to be dusted off....

Eric, some may not remember the Feed the [APA] Pilots program from 10 years ago. I found this posting on 03/08/97 from Car Talk.
http://www.cartalk.com/content/read-on/1997/03-08-97-2.html

 

[MiAAmi]

Quite the opposite MiAAmi. With the AA FA's, number two on the "unofficial inflight" duties list is to come up with an infinite amount of reasons why AA pilots are inferior to the FA's. (one example, the Brazil preflight crew sandwiches-"crew" means FA's, pilots will not be offered any)

Let me give you an example. how about the cockpit closing the a/c door and handing maintenance log books thru the cockpit window so that the flight attendants don't go illegal after a 16 hour duty day. Thanks alot! then asking if we have any left over meals for the way home because the cockpit is hungry. After eating their crew meal on the inbound leg. Im not saying that pilots are inferior to F/As but if you are scheduled a 1st class meal and breakfast and the f/a's are not why would you be so hurt that they didnt offer you a small sandwich before takeoff? The flight attendants get nothing catered for them on 9hr flights.

 

[eolesen]

Or maybe they will have to settle. "$6 billion and you're broke?"

As long as it's done more than 90 days prior to a filing, I'm sure that between debt and other obligations, AA could easily draw that $6B in cash down fairly quickly if they wanted to.

Thanks for pointing out that the public could care less about workers, therefore the employees are justified in feeling the same way towards them. Did UAL come out unscathed when their pilots struck?

Pretty much. AA may have had some short-term gain during the strike, but most of the corporate traffic that had been on UAL before the strike was back on UAL afterward.

The airlines have made themselves more vulnerable to labor because they are run leaner and they have made the job much less desireable, in the meantime security standards futher narrow the field of potential employees.

Considering that WN has 10x more applicants than positions, and other carriers are being just as selective, I find the argument of a shortage to be total hogwash.

Right now, UA is hiring pilots off the street, but they have to have at least 1000 hours as a multi-engine PIC. If they're able to put that out as a requirement, and get candidates, there's no shortage of pilots.

I still say we should have voted NO. With each passing day (and every billion added to AMRs balance sheet) I see I was right.

Had AMR gone thru bankruptcy in 2003, they'd be posting better results than they are right now, because the balance sheet would have been cleaned up more than it was, and labor costs would have been pushed even lower.

 

[AAStew]

Pilots are just as bad as Upper management. Management went to high priced business schools to gain their education to become where they are today. Pilots went to the Military to gain a free ride to learn how to fly.

This has to be the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. I am not married to a pilot, I do not live with a pilot, damn I am not even F***ing a pilot! But free ride? First, if they did not go to a military academy, they went to college and AFTER graduation joined the military. Yes they did it for the pilot training, but I would not say that those pilots in Iraq and Afghanistan right now are getting their lives worth by mere pilot training. The last of our Vietnam pilots are now retiring, would you say they got a free ride? Never has a post on here angered me as much as yours has! You may not agree with the pilots, but to make an ignorant blanket statement like that, shows you have your head up your AAss!

 

[StraaightTaalk]

This has to be the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. I am not married to a pilot, I do not live with a pilot, damn I am not even F***ing a pilot! But free ride? First, if they did not go to a military academy, they went to college and AFTER graduation joined the military. Yes they did it for the pilot training, but I would not say that those pilots in Iraq and Afghanistan right now are getting their lives worth by mere pilot training. The last of our Vietnam pilots are now retiring, would you say they got a free ride? Never has a post on here angered me as much as yours has! You may not agree with the pilots, but to make an ignorant blanket statement like that, shows you have your head up your AAss!

You really seem to have a "rage" problem, based on this post, and, of course, the profanity-laced private message you sent me a while back.

Operaations was merely stating his opinion. Are you that unable to express yourself coherently that you need to pepper each message with profanity?

 

[AAStew]

Deleted by moderator at posters request.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Well here is a copy of my pm to you for all to see:

You are an ####. Stop your preaching and understand that for humans, dealing with grief sometimes means talking about it. If you notice after I asked what happened I never posted as to how he died. We have been pm'ing each other. You wouldn't know this as you are a self righteous twit.
I can see why you may be offended being called an #### and a twit. Truth hurts. By the way, the word intended by the signs was ass in case you did not understand me.
If you can't see ignorance in what I quoted up above, then may I suggest education? An opinion you called it? Possibly, but not one based on knowledge, but on ignorance. Again it seems that I would educate myself on the facts before issuing such a statement. Rage? Websters' defines rage as uncontrolable anger. I don't think so, I would call this justifiable anger, but then possibly members of your family have never served in the military. Or the closest you have been to a member of the Armed Services is a poster. If they or you had you would know that many times they give up much more than they receive. Or maybe you do have family in the military, maybe you should ask them. Ignorance is bliss...

That's not the only PM you sent me. There were others far worse. Nice try sanitizing it, though.

 

[AAStew]

Post deleted by moderator at posters request.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Oh my...you are not well.

If denial is the route you want to go, there is not much I can do about that.