Every man has his price.

[TWU informer]

No payoff, Just tell me what did we end up with after the 2003 drive? The one in the 90s, the ones from the 80s? No promises no deals made, just a logical approach for the members, I believe nearly all my peers have signed cards, many for both the IBT and AMFA, some have told me that no matter who we get they hope I will continue to be their rep, and I probably would, well if this falls through like so many others wouldnt it make sense for us to try and adress some of the issues? As you guys sit there in Tulsa you can afford to be stuck with the status quo and take an all or nothing position, we cant.

F.U. Bob we voted no with you and then you pigeon hole us all to justify your sellout and gullible ways.

We have our best shot yet, and you go and help them out and blame me and others in Tulsa?

Every drive there has been a stooge. It was the AMFA drives that got you seperate locals, self determination, and even your ability to have the voice you have today. And you turn on us and sell us out, as if it was your intelligence that made that happen.

F.U. Bob

Now I know why Steve Luis was even unable to reach out and help the Line AMT's.
It is now very clear where the problem really lies.

First thing tommorow I owe Steve Luis a personal apology. He was right all along.

 

[Buck]

We ended up with the same constitutional crap that the International and Local 514 controls. The idea that one local can change the structure of the TWU is juvenile at best. The TWU is a pox. The only way to rid the body of a pox is to vaccinate or death by fire.

 

[Bob Owens]

F.U. Bob we voted no with you and then you pigeon hole us all to justify your sellout and gullible ways.

We have our best shot yet, and you go and help them out and blame me and others in Tulsa?

Every drive there has been a stooge. It was the AMFA drives that got you seperate locals, self determination, and even your ability to have the voice you have today. And you turn on us and sell us out, as if it was your intelligence that made that happen.

F.U. Bob

Now I know why Steve Luis was even unable to reach out and help the Line AMT's.
It is now very clear where the problem really lies.

First thing tommorow I owe Steve Luis a personal apology. He was right all along.

I had my voice long before I had a position in the TWU. I know who put me there and I made sure those same people could take me out any time they wanted, I'll repeat what I said the last time the International removed me " I work for them, if the choice is between the members and the International I choose the members".

Send Luis my love and tell him I still say he lied, he said he would support Geo then he didnt, no matter how he tried to spin it.

 

[TWU informer]

I had my voice long before I had a position in the TWU. I know who put me there and I made sure those same people could take me out any time they wanted, I'll repeat what I said the last time the International removed me " I work for them, if the choice is between the members and the International I choose the members".

Send Luis my love and tell him I still say he lied, he said he would support Geo then he didnt, no matter how he tried to spin it.

Really? Back in the day...before Little gave you seperate locals, and self determination as an appeasement offering due to support for AMFA, you sure sang a different tune then. Complaining that you were in Fleet dominated locals and had no voice. Now all of the sudden that was not true? You are either becoming dillusional or losing your memory from the stress you have been under. But your story has changed.

You had a $2.55 Line Premium with the help of Steve Luis but you campaigned hard against that idea and led us to where we are now. And now you are going to begin a new quest of Owens' agenda. Do you think maybe you are impossible to please and just an erratic and unhappy man no matter what is laid before you?

Maybe you need to just SHUT THE "F" UP and ride in the back of the bus for awhile. Before you screw up another great shot at replacing the problem instead of hoping for change from within.

 

[1AA]

I read the letter. This is damage control. I am very disappointed that most of you have flipped on Bob Owens. Bob has dedicated enormous amount of time keeping us informed over the years and through the recent court hearings. Do you really think he is going to sell us out? Jim Littles letter tells a story of a man who is unravelling at the seams. Jim is obviously accusing Bob Owens and Peterson and Pike of supporting or allowing a Ibt or AMFA drive to happen on their watches. These guys faught hard and in unison for our cause and profession. None of these guys deserve this ridicule that is being expressed on this forum. Change from within? Not going to happen. What do you expect our local presidents to or say? If they openly say or approve a drive from another union then Jim Little has every right to take action. Read between the lines and let's get back on track for the same cause. Sign a card if you wish. No one can stop you from doing so. Not even Jim Little or any local president. I have not read or come across any post on this forum from Bob Owens endorsing a raid. Bob always stuck to our issues and how it affects us. We are us. The sooner we fix our problems the better off we are. I believe getting rid of the twu is the answer. In all the years in this union I have seen a letter like Jim Littles recent one. He is losing control. He is cowarding by putting blame on his presidents for his failures as a leader. It's easier to point the finger than take responsibility for your failures. Enough said I'm done here.

 

[TWU informer]

I read the letter. This is damage control. I am very disappointed that most of you have flipped on Bob Owens. Bob has dedicated enormous amount of time keeping us informed over the years and through the recent court hearings. Do you really think he is going to sell us out? Jim Littles letter tells a story of a man who is unravelling at the seams. Jim is obviously accusing Bob Owens and Peterson and Pike of supporting or allowing a Ibt or AMFA drive to happen on their watches. These guys faught hard and in unison for our cause and profession. None of these guys deserve this ridicule that is being expressed on this forum. Change from within? Not going to happen. What do you expect our local presidents to or say? If they openly say or approve a drive from another union then Jim Little has every right to take action. Read between the lines and let's get back on track for the same cause. Sign a card if you wish. No one can stop you from doing so. Not even Jim Little or any local president. I have not read or come across any post on this forum from Bob Owens endorsing a raid. Bob always stuck to our issues and how it affects us. We are us. The sooner we fix our problems the better off we are. I believe getting rid of the twu is the answer. In all the years in this union I have seen a letter like Jim Littles recent one. He is losing control. He is cowarding by putting blame on his presidents for his failures as a leader. It's easier to point the finger than take responsibility for your failures. Enough said I'm done here.

If they had any balls and guts, they would all resign on the same day, call the National Media for interviews and lead us out of this union instead cowering if fear that Little might remove their wuss asses from the TWU. They have been stonewalled, their officer positions have gained them and us nothing. I sure as hell hope they don't lead us into a real battle, because if they fear Little and the TWU, then they are cowards.

There are plenty of other AMT's to take the helm of the TWU Locals if we get screwed again at the NMB. They do not have the market cornered on leadership that is for damn sure.

Global resignation is what Little fears. Removal from Office the Presidents fear.
Who is winning this game of fear?

 

[odie01]

Bob,
Once again, what is the timeline for the so called change that was discussed with all the other locals and AFW?

Is it after the 2013 TWU convention?

What does "Change from within" mean? How can the membership change the constitution, or recall Jim Little all his appointed ATD cronnies. That's a sloggan that has been used up
way to many times, with no positive results for the members.

 

[Boomer]

Where was the Sect. 1113 Bankruptcy Letter Between AMR and the TWU stating that the concessions granted would preclude further Sect. 1113 motions by AMR to the TWU?

 

[Overspeed]

"Stand as one" as long as we all do what Tulsa, or International figures that dont have to live under the terms, says you mean right?

Are you one of the recipients of Dons spots?


On the line we make anywhere from $20,000 to $50,000 less per year than mechanics who have the same licences, same qualifications and same responsibilities as us. Some are even Non-union and they make that much more than us, we voted 75% against this deal and had it imposed on us by a vote where the majority came out of Tulsa. I didnt put the membership into 20 different locals and what I'd like to see is consolidation. I dont think its right that the way its set up now there could be more Presidents from Fleet Service voting on a mechanics contract than mechanics. True most of them didnt bother but they could if they needed to and thats not right. If Tulsa doesnt want to do it then fine, let them stay on their own and get their own book as well.

With much lower pay and inferior benefits wheres the "union advantage" for us on the line?

Are you saying that in between Conventions that we shouldnt attempt to make any changes in the way the AA ATD is structured? If so why not?

As far as credibility do you really think you have any? I have credibility where its important to me-my peers.

People like Ruiz that was in your video is your peer? I may not agree with you on most everything but what does that guy bring to your gang? All he said in the video was that the TA was a turd sandwich deluxe. Did that analogy work with anyone? Bob at least coach your guys a little better.

 

[Bob Owens]

Really? Back in the day...before Little gave you seperate locals, and self determination as an appeasement offering due to support for AMFA, you sure sang a different tune then. Complaining that you were in Fleet dominated locals and had no voice. Now all of the sudden that was not true? You are either becoming dillusional or losing your memory from the stress you have been under. But your story has changed.

You had a $2.55 Line Premium with the help of Steve Luis but you campaigned hard against that idea and led us to where we are now. And now you are going to begin a new quest of Owens' agenda. Do you think maybe you are impossible to please and just an erratic and unhappy man no matter what is laid before you?

Maybe you need to just SHUT THE "F" UP and ride in the back of the bus for awhile. Before you screw up another great shot at replacing the problem instead of hoping for change from within.

Well if you actually read what I've written then you would see that IMO we are still dominated by fleet locals (and Tulsa) and that the seperate locals did not fix anything.

The "Owens agenda"? Now you sound like the people you say you are opposed to. I'd certainly like to know exactly what those who throw that around mean by that.

I dont see where I'm saying anything different than I have been since I took office 4 years ago. The organization is screwed up and we need change. The IAC has the authority to change the Union and the membership has the authority to change unions. Sounds the same but its two different things.

I dont recall Steve Luis pushing for the increased Line premium before the company threw it on the table, I do recall him pushing for a $5/hr CC Premium though.

As far as the comments on my emotiional state and satiability I think you are the one that needs to learn to put emotions in check. What I'm trying to do is consistant with what I've been saying for the last four years and no I'm not satisfied with this agreement but we've been told that 74% of your coworkers voted for it.

Odie;
As far as a timeline those involved are still discussing it, it may very well go nowhere but we have an obligation to try something. Conventions provide very limited opportunity for change, if there is any chance at implimenting change at the Convention the chips have to be in place long before the Convention actually takes place. At the last Convention we had a whole slew of Timely resolutions, Recall, election of Division directors, electronic ballotting,,, they blocked them from even going to the floor.

Sure we could throw ourselves on our swords and resign without exhausting every idea, the ATD would simply love that, in fact Gillespie said as much two weeks ago when he accused me of posting what Lee Sehamm was writing under my name (???), peppered with the language that Little cited as being so offensive (its only offensive when they dont use it I guess) but thats not the message I've been getting from the guys I represent. Maybe it would make a good story for Dave to use in Tulsa but I think its been made pretty clear that the majority in Tulsa (not the 26%) could care less what happens out on the line.

 

[RV4]

After years of TWU false hope, false change, and failed negotiation strategies, how could anyone still believe in or participate in "change from within"?

Talk about complete denial.

 

[1AA]

After years of TWU false hope, false change, and failed negotiation strategies, how could anyone still believe in or participate in "change from within"?

Talk about complete denial.

He is a sworn officer of the TWU. What do you want him to say? He is accountable to his members. He is and always was PRO AMT but he has a fine line to stay clear of. We on the other hand can cross it and pretty much say what we want. If he crosses that line he can be removed from office and his membership will suffer more than you or me posting on this web site. We all know that the TWU must go but some of us can not openly say it. I can not believe that some guys here do not understand this. It is not about just me. We are all in this together. We just approach it from different angles and point of views.

 

[RV4]

He is a sworn officer of the TWU. What do you want him to say? He is accountable to his members. He is and always was PRO AMT but he has a fine line to stay clear of. We on the other hand can cross it and pretty much say what we want. If he crosses that line he can be removed from office and his membership will suffer more than you or me posting on this web site. We all know that the TWU must go but some of us can not openly say it. I can not believe that some guys here do not understand this. It is not about just me. We are all in this together. We just approach it from different angles and point of views.

I guess the part I don't understand if that belief system that there is only ONE man capable of leading Local 562. Last I knew, every leader excpet for those appointed can be replaced. God forbid someone that important gets ill or killed in an accident.

Many of us reject fear when it used by the TWU. However, if it is the threatening of the great and powerful OZ, then we should be really careful and not speak our minds? OK I get it now.

No wonder we have the representation we currently put up with. People get the representation they deserve.

Let's keep protecting Bob from the wrath of Little, and then keep blaming Tulsa that we have the TWU and our contracts suck. "We'll get 'em next time brother"

 

[Dan Cunningham]

Bob,

I'll tell you what was gotten from the 1998-2000 drive and the 2003-4 drive from my point of view. First, for the first time in the history of the twu at AA the contract in 2001 contained an article covering Retirement which, if I'm not mistaken, was not in the contract before then, but kept as an AA Policy and Procedures footnote. Maybe I am mistaken, but perhaps you can ask King Ed Koziatek why they decided to do that in 2001. My belief, and that of many others is just that, the mighty twu knew their game in that regard was over!(Just think what would have happened if our retirement were still just AA Policy going into Bankruptcy, Bob. How soon you discount what was accomplished!) The 98-2000 drive also got us the famous "Separate Locals"! I see you mentioned a piece of that regarding how many Fleet Service clerks "Can" sit and vote on Mechanic & Related Negotiations. Comically enough you only mention that in print in your own defense now. Why didn't you mention that up front and let all the membership know. I suggested that to some DFW Bootlickin Local folks in front of negotiations, but they, like you, were mute on that topic! Wonder why, Bob, any thoughts why everyone waited till it was all over?

The 2003-4 drive netted us our first filing for an AMFA representation challenge election at the NMB during my years at AA and I am proud of everyone that signed a card to that effort. My personal efforts during that drive resulted in my becoming the highest paid AMT at AA and probably helped the company/twu fire me unlawfully, according to the arbitrator. I didn't see you nor anyone else getting "Permanently Banned For Life" by the twu, Bob. Wonder why?

I remember back in '99 or so you and some forward thinkin JFK folks attempted to cut a deal with then twu Prez. Sunny Hall. Remember that one Bob? I do, but let us stick with today. I don't have the answers that you seem to be gifted with, Bob, but I am still in awe at what I just read in your most recent letter!!! I still try to help/represent fellow employees, but I guess I just don't need the twu title, and barely need the twu to even administrate resultant grievances. Here's to your new career, Bob.

Cheers,

Dan Cunningham

 

[Hopeful]

Well if you actually read what I've written then you would see that IMO we are still dominated by fleet locals (and Tulsa) and that the seperate locals did not fix anything.

I truly hope this attempt to solidify the line locals' position doesn't backfire.
I would hate more than anything for us to get screwed further by going back to the way it used to be with the one-local-fits-all-structure.