Every man has his price.

[odie01]

That is true. I have not been to a convention. Since you have explain to odie how he can collect support to go forward with agenda he thinks should be considered for change. He acts like he wants to do something but he is ignorant to the process. Your an elected rep, help him out....

Basicly you are saying if your not a twu official you cant do anything. What about the average joe amt in tulsa. How can he change things at the twu convention? If you never been, I guess your a little bit ignorant to the process,,,,thats why you asked Chuck

 

[odie01]

Pay attention tulsa. this is your arbitraitor

Sleep tight, I hope Sam didnt eat the last Dove bar

 

[High Speed Steel]

Basicly you are saying if your not a twu official you cant do anything. What about the average joe amt in tulsa. How can he change things at the twu convention? If you never been, I guess your a little bit ignorant to the process,,,,thats why you asked Chuck

Hey, just trying to help you become a leader at something other than little league odie. Using all resources available here...

 

[High Speed Steel]

Pay attention tulsa. this is your arbitraitor

Sleep tight, I hope Sam didnt eat the last Dove bar

Nighty night slugger...lmao

 

[DNTULSA]

Nighty night slugger...lmao

Lowspeed,

You got be working for the teamsters. As dumb as the twu is, they aren't dumb enough to use your services. (such as they are)

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I would change nothing. If you want change start now with agenda and rally support to take forward to the next convention. It takes some effort odie and you might have to miss a little league ball game or two if you really want to change something. But I know and you know you won't put forth an effort to change anything you would rather come here and complain, that's all. Face it odie, your a whiner.... B)

Dobby,

You would change nothing? So then appointed,
unaccountable officers are okay with you.

Change from within doesn't work Dobby! The
twu national convention is a joke. Why have a
convention with casino dealer, taxi driver, flight
attendants, etc. when we are AMTs. what possible
benefit does this bring people in our craft and
class?

If you had attended a twu national convention
you'd have to look up to smile for the camera.

Go AMFA!

 

[Bob Owens]

I was responding to one of Bob’s frequent prophecies. None of which have come true as of this date.

I throw out possible scenarios based on the History I've read and what I've experienced over the last 30 years in this industry. Some people read the Sports page, I read History and social commentary.

His Vote NO campaign was effective. It worked on the initial company offer (2 year T/A with 18 month wage re-opener) ,

More lies, that was in 2008 and I didnt take office till 2009.

I didn’t and don’t blame Bob for the outsourcing, that’s American managements’ view of how to level the playing field with the other carriers that have gone through bankruptcy before us.

Management isnt looking for a level playing field, they are looking for an advantage, just like we gave them in 1995, when we were the leader among the legacies in outsourcing and made more than SWA, just like we gave them in 2003.

While we gave up a lot in 2003, there was no outsourcing to the extent of the other carriers.

I suppose it depends on how you define outsourcing, as an A&P anything that we used to do that we no longer do it outsourced and we were the leaders for nearly 20 years in siphoning work away from A&Ps. In fact some of the work we lost in 1983 others only lost after 2002, they held on to that work for 20 years. We destroyed the profession, you seem to take pride in that.

United Airlines

Filed for bankruptcy: Dec. 9, 2002
Length of time in bankruptcy: 38 months

Capacity changes: 20 percent fewer airplanes; trimmed capacity by 8 percent
Job cuts: 30 percent fewer employees, about 58,000

• American Airlines
• -in 2003 won concessions without filing for BK where mechanics gave up 25% of their compensation, by 2008 they also reduced M&R headcount by 35% compared to 2003 . Enterred BK with the lowest M&R compensation in the industry in 2011. Total job cuts across entire company prior to entering BK, around 40,000.

 

[AC Tynker]

Dobby,

You would change nothing? So then appointed,
unaccountable officers are okay with you.

Change from within doesn't work Dobby! The
twu national convention is a joke. Why have a
convention with casino dealer, taxi driver, flight
attendants, etc. when we are AMTs. what possible
benefit does this bring people in our craft and
class?

If you had attended a twu national convention
you'd have to look up to smile for the camera.

Go AMFA!

That's FlipFlip, 8Ball Bob, get it right
That was dumb. I hope all these witty sayings are off the cuff and you are not putting a whole lot of thought into them.

 

[Bob Owens]

I would change nothing. If you want change start now with agenda and rally support to take forward to the next convention. It takes some effort odie and you might have to miss a little league ball game or two if you really want to change something. But I know and you know you won't put forth an effort to change anything you would rather come here and complain, that's all. Face it odie, your a whiner.... B)

Have you ever been to a Convention? The barriers to change are formidable. You've obviously never been to a TWU Convention (I've been to two, the last was even more undemocratic than the first). For a better understanding and to see through the cult like propaganda that you've been fed, eagerly consumed and now propogate I would suggest reading Stanley Aronowitz's book "From the Ashes of the Old". I know you wont, because that actually requires reading which from your many replys here is an obvious challenge for you but others may. If they do they will get a deeper understanding of the problems with the labor movement in the United States and why it is the way it is.

Here we are at the bottom of the industry. Over the past ten years we have seen our real incomes plummet by around 40% and will likely plummet by another 20% by 2017 yet you say that you would change nothing. That pretty much says it all.

The changes we need are unique to the AA M&R ATD system and there's no point in waiting for a Convention. Changes to the Constitution probably would not address our flawed TWU/AA M&R structure anyway. Why would the other 90% of the TWU support changes to the Constitution where only 10% are affected? The fact is the IAC can make changes to the structure of the ATD, the Constitution gives them the authority to do so, but do they have the will? Historically the answer has been "NO". Six figure salaries lavished upon people who would otherwise not be able to command such salaries with their limited education help maintain their comforts and when people are comfortable they are not motivated to change. Members really dont have the power to change the structure of the TWU/ATD, they can ask the IAC to make changes but they have no authority over the IAC, their options are to accept what the IAC dictates or change to another organization if the IAC does not respond.

The IAC can change the organization while the members can change organizations. The members final say is whether or not they remain members, thats how the law looks at it. There are limited democratic safeguards in the LMRDA but thats pretty much it. Its assumed that the ability to leave is enough to force the organization to be responsive to the needs of the membership, but then again the law also assumes that companies wont file for BK unless they have no other options as well.

If the IAC is confident the AMFA drive will fail they will not make changes, if they are concerned they might, depending on how they see such changes impacting the next Convention. Politically they may be willing to lose M&R rather than alienate the Fleet Service Locals by making necessary changes to the ATD M&R structure.

Some claim that its pointless to even try, maybe they are right, but like I said before what do we on the line have to lose by asking? Sure we could sit back and just see what happens with the card drives,once again becoming horrified observers passively putting our fate in hands the very same people who have agreed to put us at the bottom of the industry, but I'd rather try and get as many options for change as possible out there than just sit back and see what happens with Tulsa and Title II.

So yes the odds are they will not change, but even if the odds are 99% against change theres still 1% chance they will.Obviously the more likely it becomes that an election for representation will materialize the more those odds will change. Accountability is a powerful motivator.

 

[AC Tynker]

Have you ever been to a Convention? The barriers to change are formidable. You've obviously never been to a TWU Convention (I've been to two, the last was even more undemocratic than the first). For a better understanding and to see through the cult like propaganda that you've been fed, eagerly consumed and now propogate I would suggest reading Stanley Aronowitz's book "From the Ashes of the Old". I know you wont, because that actually requires reading which from your many replys here is an obvious challenge for you but others may.

Here we are at the bottom of the industry. Over the past ten years we have seen our real incomes plummet by around 40% and will likely plummet by another 20% by 2017 yet you say that you would change nothing. That pretty much says it all.

Does it also tell you to "Get caught up with Industry average while in bankruptcy instead of waiting until they emerge" ? If so I will go to the library instead of wasting money on it.

Oh yeah I almost forgot, almost time for you to sign up for Early Out so you can go somewhere else like you said. Take Chuck with you so you two can go make what you tried to achieve for AMTs here in BK and then you need to share your story about it with your coworkers wherever you go so they can get a good laugh like you have provided me.

 

[Bob Owens]

Does it also tell you to "Get caught up with Industry average while in bankruptcy instead of waiting until they emerge" ? If so I will go to the library instead of wasting money on it.

Dont you mean 6 years after they emerge? Very few workers go into BK at the bottom of the industry, another proud accomplishment?

Chances are where you live they won't have that book in the library, or they burnt it.

 

[odie01]

Have you ever been to a Convention? The barriers to change are formidable. You've obviously never been to a TWU Convention (I've been to two, the last was even more undemocratic than the first). For a better understanding and to see through the cult like propaganda that you've been fed, eagerly consumed and now propogate I would suggest reading Stanley Aronowitz's book "From the Ashes of the Old". I know you wont, because that actually requires reading which from your many replys here is an obvious challenge for you but others may. If they do they will get a deeper understanding of the problems with the labor movement in the United States and why it is the way it is.

Here we are at the bottom of the industry. Over the past ten years we have seen our real incomes plummet by around 40% and will likely plummet by another 20% by 2017 yet you say that you would change nothing. That pretty much says it all.

The changes we need are unique to the AA M&R ATD system and there's no point in waiting for a Convention. Changes to the Constitution probably would not address our flawed TWU/AA M&R structure anyway. Why would the other 90% of the TWU support changes to the Constitution where only 10% are affected? The fact is the IAC can make changes to the structure of the ATD, the Constitution gives them the authority to do so, but do they have the will? Historically the answer has been "NO". Six figure salaries lavished upon people who would otherwise not be able to command such salaries with their limited education help maintain their comforts and when people are comfortable they are not motivated to change. Members really dont have the power to change the structure of the TWU/ATD, they can ask the IAC to make changes but they have no authority over the IAC, their options are to accept what the IAC dictates or change to another organization if the IAC does not respond.

The IAC can change the organization while the members can change organizations. The members final say is whether or not they remain members, thats how the law looks at it. There are limited democratic safeguards in the LMRDA but thats pretty much it. Its assumed that the ability to leave is enough to force the organization to be responsive to the needs of the membership, but then again the law also assumes that companies wont file for BK unless they have no other options as well.

If the IAC is confident the AMFA drive will fail they will not make changes, if they are concerned they might, depending on how they see such changes impacting the next Convention. Politically they may be willing to lose M&R rather than alienate the Fleet Service Locals by making necessary changes to the ATD M&R structure.

Some claim that its pointless to even try, maybe they are right, but like I said before what do we on the line have to lose by asking? Sure we could sit back and just see what happens with the card drives,once again becoming horrified observers passively putting our fate in hands the very same people who have agreed to put us at the bottom of the industry, but I'd rather try and get as many options for change as possible out there than just sit back and see what happens with Tulsa and Title II.

So yes the odds are they will not change, but even if the odds are 99% against change theres still 1% chance they will.Obviously the more likely it becomes that an election for representation will materialize the more those odds will change. Accountability is a powerful motivator.

Good info, Thanks

 

[The Dissident]

Bob Said "So yes the odds are they will not change, but even if the odds are 99% against change theres still 1% chance they will.Obviously the more likely it becomes that an election for representation will materialize the more those odds will change. Accountability is a powerful motivator."

Stop tilting at windmills.!!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Dont you mean 6 years after they emerge? Very few workers go into BK at the bottom of the industry, another proud accomplishment?

Chances are where you live they won't have that book in the library, or they burnt it.

We have you and the vote no coalition to thank for going into bankruptcy at the bottom in wages Bob. Remember your chant of number 2 won't do? Another proud accomplishment....

Also, I have a copy of that book it was the 2010 TA....

 

[1AA]

We have you and the vote no coalition to thank for going into bankruptcy at the bottom in wages Bob. Remember your chant of number 2 won't do? Another proud accomplishment....

Also, I have a copy of that book it was the 2010 TA....

Hey, let me let you in on a simple note here. WE WERE AT THE BOTTOM BEFORE BOB WAS IN OFFICE. Nice try but your losing it again. Take a break and come back and see us next week.